The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Rebuilding old split Rims creating 1 piece rims

Some of you may have seen what I was messing around with it was posted in a different thread but I thought I would put it in a logical order in case any one was interested...

I will start by saying this was more difficult than I anticipated, and Not entirely sure I would do it this way again.

So heres what I did... The new blanks are from coker, the ones I choose are 20x4.5" blanks, they do also offer them in 20x6"

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/59c5e376.jpg

I removed the center from the old rims
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/1a137bf1.jpg

The centers are too large to just fit in the new blanks, I didnt have access to a lathe big enough so i did it the hard way on a bridgeport...

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/13d6f39c.jpg

Here you can see how it fit in
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/2394257e.jpg

I was kind of hoping it would sort of self center but that didnt work as I anticipated. So I fabricated this fixture which allowed me to use a dial indicator spin the whole fixture and center the blank to the old center

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/9210eb69.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/494e4ebe.jpg

I tacked the rim in a star pattern sequance and the flipped it over and tacked it from the back
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/303aa6c4.jpg

I mounted the rim back on the hub and spun it to check the run out, they arent perfect but really quite good, put them back in the fixture and welded them in nice and hot

here you can see the weld sequence
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/b2666565.jpg

heres one spinning just for fun
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/a3335f27.jpg

basically the front and back of the "spokes" are fully welded which works out to be over 5 feet of weld on one rim.

I only have 1 of the two I have been messing with done, but I am hoping to get the other one done today.

Like I said before it was more difficult than I anticipated but it did work. In the process of doing this, I have come up with a way that I thing would be much easier that I would like to try out but I dont have any more rims like these to try it on. The rims on the back of my truck are 3 piece and the centers are too small to fit into these blanks. If someone has some of these rims sitting around and wanted to donate them Ill give the other method a try. I actually think the other method could be done in a home garage fairly easily...

anyway.. back to work...

corpo; I am trying to do just what your doing but know it will be hard,I need some info. what sise rim did you start with /old tire size/ year of rim/new rim size /what size tire are you using now Mine is a 35 chevy 1 ton with duel rear wheeels, what was the cost of the blank. send me a pm if you like/ this is just what I was looking for,Ihave 12 rims all together only need 6 but have not looked close at condition of them, need to see witch ones I will use

I can't see your pics- - - - -too many filters on the web at work. Do the new rims have drop centers to allow the tires to be rolled onto the rims, and if so, how are they going to clear your brake drums? Most split rims have straight centers that barely clear the brakes already. When I installed a Chevy 14-bolt rear end in my Ford F-350, (the Chevy rear was free) the Ford tubeless tire rims wouldn't fit over the drums. I ended up using split rims with tubes in the tires for the inside duals and Ford tubeless rims for the outer wheels.
Jerry

Glen, sent you a pm

Jerry, I have yet to try them on the rear drums, you might be right they may not clear, Im sure they would clear the front drums. But I am not running drums on the front I did a disk break conversion on the front. I will check the clearance on the rears... But the other way I want to try to make 1 piece rims wouldnt involve having a drop center..

Without a drop center I can't imagine how you'd install a tire on a one piece rim?

Grigg

perhaps I am confused but how does the drop center affect the ability to install a tire?

Well.. It gives a place for the bead to nestle into so you can force the other half of it over the lip of the rim.

Try removing or installing a tire from one of your lock ring wheels without first removing the lock ring. (pretend it's a one piece wheel with no drop center)
Then try the same with any single piece wheel, it'll have a drop center, and you'll quickly see how it helps.

Grigg

thanks Grigg, thats kinda what I figured.. but i dont think motorcycle rims have drop centers do they? How do those get mounted?

Haha.. your a funny guy.. remove one of the old tires... it takes me a good hour to 3 hours to get one off with a saw they are so old and hard

Motor cycle and bicycle tires are large and narrow and limber, it works out. Truck tires are big, stiff, and tough, you need all the help you can get.
Not only would it be really difficult to change a 20 or 22.5" truck tire without a drop center (or multi piece rim) I'm pretty sure it'd be impossible.

Grigg

Checked tonight.. yes they clear the big ol rear drums..

OK, just got a look at your pics- - - - -those are drop-center rims, there's just a small area where the tire bead can drop into the center so the beads can slip over the lip of the rim. You're still going to have a terrible time getting those tires on, if they're intended to be run with tubes. Getting a tube inside the tire on that narrow rim is going to be interesting!
Jerry

Corpo, Nice to see ur doing what I thought was possible, but I hadn't found any new rims narrower than 8" so I put the idea on hold.
Would you know what the drop center width is on the 6 in rim or do u have to go to Coker for that info. I assume u mean Coker Tire ?
Was it a must to have to weld the front side of the wheel ? I made some 26" tractor wheels and only welded the backside.

Reason I ask is I can't say the weld looks that attractive on the front side.

Dan

Corpo, I looked up the 6" rim that Coker has, but it also has a small drop center area.
Have you mounted any tires on the wheels you made yet. If so, are they tubeless or tube, cause I'm wondering if only "Merlin" could get a tube inside the tire.
Dan

I personally would say that the weld is a must on both sides of the center.. if anything the outside weld is more crucial due to the forces when cornering...





I believe that the drop center is the same size, No I have not mounted the tires yet, still need to finish the rims up and paint them. I have yet to decide how I am going to finish the outside area, where they arent welded.. I may fill the non welded area with some silicon bronze brazing rod to smooth them out...

You are not the only one that has said these are going to be difficult to mount but I personally dont think its going to be a problem, these rims are intended for the old 20" bias ply tires with a tube. So I will be using them for there intended purpose basically except that I put my own centers in them rather than the centers that they are designed for, but that wouldn't effect the tire mounting process..

Heres a couple of picture of a hot rod with them on there.. he had 20x5.5's up front and 20x6.5" out back...
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/Random%20pics/123.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/mack1416/Random%20pics/DSCF1566.jpg


-Thanks

Are you sure the drop center rims are intended for a bias ply tire? They may well be for a radial 20" tire.

The Coker website has little information on the drop center, but I would guess they are for a radial tire.

Tad

Yes, They are made for bias ply tires, I posted up those two pictures this morning did you take a look at those? The rims are intended for a 6x20 tire. When I ordered the blanks, they still recomend running a tube due to the high side wall.. no flap though..

I dont think you would ever find a radial tire that would fit a rim that narrow

I did see the picture....I guess I thought they may have been the radials they have that look similar to the bias ply tires....I guess I should have looked closer though.

Does this take the same size tire as the original rim did? It looks to be the same width in the one picture but it kind of hard to tell.

I hope you don't think myself or anyone else is trying to bash you.... I'm just trying to fully understand what you are doing... and making sure that you do as well. Please do not take offence I have seen a lot of stuff online that people have done where they truely do not have a clue. I'm just trying to learn as I go.

I think if you got a relatively quick and cost effective method of redoing these rims you could definitely sell quite a few of them. If you are going to sell to others though you may want to look into how to isolate yourself legally(become a LLC etc.), in case something (God forbid) ever happens.

Tad

haha no man.. all good.. didn't mean for my post to sound like I was taking offense to any of your questions..

yes the rims do take the same size tire that was originally on my truck 6x20 (32" tall) i know that this works for the old narrow rims 4.5" rims, dont know for sure how the offset would work on the wider rims with the 6" blanks, you may not be able to get enough offset for them to work together.

in order to do it cost effectively I would need access to a lathe big enough to spin the centers, this would definitely simplify the process... Also keep in mind the rim blanks were 120 a piece so in in order for some one to pay someone else to do this wouldnt be cheep... Like you mentioned there would definitely be some legality concerns as well..

anyway if you have anymore questions or need any additional classification ask away.. I thought about this long before I attempted to do it...

- thanks

I have fabricated wheels for dirt track race cars using some creative setup procedures on a brake drum lathe. Turn the rim SLOW and take very shallow cuts!
Jerry

I like all of your effort and the rims look nice, but I went the easy way out, and had Stockton make one piece rims for me. I don't have the knowledge or equipment to do what you did. I am surprised you got the rims from Coker. I tried to buy rims from them and they said they couldn't match my rims off my 48 two ton.

Corpo, You might want to hold off on finishing the front side of those rims until you get the tire mounted.
I have yet to figure out how to get a tire on a newly painted wheel without scraping some paint off, and I've had the pros do it with their fancy machines and still the edge of the wheel looses paint.

The trick I use is to mount the tire and then paint it, then there's no lose of paint.
Ya, I know what ur thinkin....masking a tire is a pain in the butt and ur right.
I've got a fast easy way to mask if you want to hear about it.

Dan

Tires can be mounted without chipping the paint...
First off understand that I despise mounting or dismounting tires, there are professionals that make it look easy, and I'm sure not one of them and don't ever want to be one either... That said I've mounted a couple sets of both 22.5" and even some lock ring tube type wheels all without any damage to the paint.

Three important things:
* Use plenty of the soap or goop or whatever genuine tire mounting lubricant you can find.
* Lay a couple moving blankets on the floor to work on.
* And here's the key, use some plastic strips between the rim and your tire tool, or between the lock ring and the rim if tube type.

I've used pieces of an antifreeze or oil jug for those plastic strips, they work great.

I suppose the 4th thing is take your time, don't be in a rush.

Grigg

Grigg, those are good tips, but I think the key word was chip the paint.
A tire passing over the rim with the usual pressure is going to rough up the paint, especially if it's fresh paint, and leave it in a state that is undesirable looking to me.

Kinda like when a tire gets loose from ya and slams into the side of your car....ya got to go and fix that scuff mark it left.

It's really all about what you want the wheel to look like, and I figure once the tire is on, hopefully it won't have to come off for some time, so why degrade the paint quality from the start.
That's why I choose to paint after the tire is on.

Dan

That's what the tire mounting grease/soap stuff is for.
Not saying it is risk free, but if you're careful it can be done.

Grigg

Have you considered powder coating the rims? Not sure if the powder coat would be tough enough to resist the scuffing, but would be better than paint. Your rims would also be fully protected...inside and out, painting after is fine aesthetically, but doesn't protect the inside or the bead area from rust.

Tad

Yeah I saw your post with your new rims they looked good, but are too wide for what I am doing. I am trying to maintain the old look with the bias plys.

The didnt match my rims, I made my rims match their blanks Im fairly confident that just about any of the 20" rims with locking rings should work. Not the 3 piece rims which is what I have on the back of my truck, the centers are too small due to how the 3 piece rims work.




Ill probably paint them and touch them up if need be, I havent decided if I am going to try to mount them myself or not, I have access to a tire machine but dont really know how to use it... But im sure I can sucker one of my coworkers into showing me how. But the other option I am considering is sending the rims with my parents in may they are driving past coker, and I could have them mount them since the tires are coming from there, and then I wouldnt have to pay the shipping




Im pretty cheap!



I think it could be done, alot of the time I think the rims get scratched because the plastic slides on the tire mounting machines get messed up and not replaces as the should, and perhaps not enough of the tire lube...

Thanks guys

Prices around here for blasting AND powder coating run $20-40 per rim, that's a super deal in my mind. You personally don't have to mess with blasting or paint, and have a better end product. I had my wheels powder coated, I think it was $30 each, and it is tougher than paint.

To avoid scratching the rims when you install the tires do it by hand, don't use a tire machine unless they guy running it is sure he won't scratch them...

Grigg