The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts PTO/Winch Questions

Does anyone have an experience with running a 2nd PTO off a SM465? I currently have one off the driver's side that runs my dump and would like to add one to the other side to run a PTO winch. Also does anyone have input on adding a PTO winch to their trucks? I have a good source and was thinking about adding a Garwood 12k or 20k winch to my 6100 and would like to run it off the other side of my sm465. Thanks.

why not just use a hydraulic motor to run the winch off of the pump you already have for the dump?

Tad

Hydraulic motors are known for being slow. If you run a pto off the other side it will turn the opposite direction, so you will have to rewind your wire rope and rework your controls (in is out and out is now in).I set up a few and it can be done with a lot of pre-planning.I even have one on a 850 farm tractor that turns at 540 rpm.Hope this helps.

Have you thought of using a dual output PTO? But you may not have enough room depending how your pump is currently mounted. On the other hand another single output might be easier for the winch setup. I'm not sure but I think you might be able to get both shafts to rotate in the same direction if you can flip the shift linkage on the 2nd PTO box. Should be interesting.

SimS

The current PTO for the dump is on the driver's side and connects via a driveshaft to the pump for the dump. I was looking to add another driveshaft off the passenger's side headed forward to a Garwood military PTO winch. I am currently trying to track down a Muncie or a Chelsea PTO (don't know of any others) made for the SM465. It is my current understanding that since the Garwood winches have some kind of directional shifting (somebody please correct me if my information is incorrect) that I don't need a PTO with reverse or to spin it in a certain direction. I replied to one PTO advertised on a craigslist but haven't gotten a response yet. I also looked on ebay but can't find a compatible model yet. If anybody has a good idea for where I can find one "economically" priced I would love suggestions. Thanks for your help.

Try calling AW Direct (www.awdirect.com) @ 1-800-243-3194 and ask for their tech service specialist.They are real good with customer service . Also call Zip's Equipment (www.zips.com) @ 1-800-222-6047 and tell them what you want to do.Both have been in the towing equipment business for many years.

Having a great deal of experience with PTO's, drivelines, & mobile hydraulics please allow me to offer some suggestions. First of all you'll need complete information on the Garwood winch you intend to use, not just your understanding of it. Different brands and models all have their individual characteristics so this is primary. Armed with that information you'll know what the HP requirements of it are and if it requires a forward/reverse PTO or does it have an internal transmission to allow for the direction. If you need a heavy duty PTO (and you will) it may be rated higher than what the transmission can deliver. You need the driveline to fail before the PTO or truck tranny does because it is less expensive to repair if the power demands are substantial. I've actually seen the entire side of a transmission break off with the PTO attached because the tranny was the "weak link" in the setup. So obviously there is a great deal to "understand" about where your headed.

If you will allow me to comment on your statement of a "12K or 20K Garwood winch" this tells me you don't know what you truly need. So exactly what do you wish to do? There is a big difference in the two capacities. Is it because they are available surplus or do you have both of them? Garwood was a prime provider of winches during WWII, Korea and beyond. They are long gone so parts are an issue with them. Built under military contract often means they are different than commercial models and have excessive specifications as compared to the rest of the world, i.e. commercial application.

There is a possibility that an old mechanical winch could be run by adding a hydraulic motor but your pump may not develop enough pressure or flow to power the motor in that application. Your old pump will not have much pressure, maybe a 1000 psi if in good condition, as that is what the old dump trucks used.
Also you'd need a large enough reservoir and your hoist may not even have a reservoir. Also add a 4 way valve of adequate size, hoses, fittings, controls, etc. and now your spending a lot of cash. Here is another possible solution; if the winch does have a direction feature then perhaps you can run it from the current pump driveshaft by relocating the pump and run the sprocket/chain drive up to the winch. Just a thought but it would save a ton of work and lots of bucks.

I hope I haven't thrown cold water on your intentions but this is a hell of a lot more involved than most people ever consider. If you find my advice valuable and want to discuss further then you can always e- mail be privately.

I have used winches in the past and can confirm that all the statements Moneypit made are true. If you want a 12 to 16k winch, I would use an electric winch. Mount an extra battery right beside the winch to have a short cable and put on a heavy alternator. I have a 16k winch on the nose of my car hauler trailer and want nothing to do with the way we did it 40 years ago. For heavier winches, hydraulic is the only way to go.

I should have added the electric option but figured everyone already knows that. But it is true. Easy, corded controls, probably faster, much easier to mount and a LOT cheaper. A forward/reverse PTO can bust $1K in a heartbeat. How's that for openers? I bought a brand new 12V 10K winch on ebay for 300 bucks so I couldn't agree more.

I think one merit of hydraulic not mentioned is when you stall it it does not bother the motor at all. Where as with mechainical drive you can get into failure of shafting transmission ESPECIALLY if you do not use a shear pin somewhere in drive.

Electric are great BUT
when you stall it you may burn motor
AND water WILL get into motor - DC motors do not like water

Dan Bentler

Don't worry about "raining on my parade" Moneypit. If I knew everything I wouldn't be posting questions in this forum. I appreciate you taking the time to provide such a complete answer. Although I grew up a grease monkey spending time wrenching with my grandfather it has been many years and my "trainer" in such things has long since passed. My 54' is one of the last connections I have to him and I only recently managed to save it from the scrap yard through my shear persistence and a bit of luck. The truck means a great deal to me and I am just trying to learn as much as I can so that I can work to not only bring it back from the "brink" but create something I can share with my own kids. The winch is definitely not the highest priority item on the list by a long shot, I was just working on trying to create a "master" overall plan so that I can keep the number of setbacks to a minimum. I believe I have a nearby economical source for the winches and was trying to figure things out before I told them I was interested. I also believe I have managed to track down a Muncie PTO (single speed, one direction) for the SM465 for $100 but I obviously didn't want to purchase it if the whole thing wasn't going to work. I thought the PTO winch thing would be unique and kind of fit with the vintage of the truck. It sounds like electric may be the best way to go but more importantly probably won't effect the other choices I have to make in the rebuild until way down the line. Below I have include some of the many links I came across that made me think about going that way. Thanks again!

P.S. Thanks to the rest of you guys that chimed in as well. It is greatly appreciated!

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/899233-pto-winch.html
http://www.cj-3a.com/installing_a_pto_winch.htm
http://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/61398-gertrude-centre-mounted-pto-winch.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=576510
http://www.vernco.com/PTO/id131.htm
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M35A...ckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_11094wt_1167
http://cgi.ebay.com/Braden-bumper-w...s&hash=item4cf2e63feb#ht_1968wt_1141
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=33202.20
http://www.boyceequipment.com/Boyce_Equipment_Catalog_7thEdition1.pdf