The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay No power to iginition switch

I have a 1957 3100 with a 1960 235 and floor starter. At some point this truck was either originally 12v or someone converted it, I have no clue. The truck runs but I have no lights at all but I do get power to the instruments.
Tracking down the terrible rewiring someone has done before me I have fixed a ton of stuff but I'm confused on one thing. The 20 GA Violet wire running from the starter to the ignition switch and connecting at the Start tab on the switch is not connected at the starter. This wire, I believe, is the only way power can get to the switch.
I have two starters one is the one that came with the truck, probably not original and another one I picked up at the salvage yard. The one that came with the truck has a little mounting screw on the side of the actuator. The actuator being where the battery connects to the starter and the little Black wire runs from the starter to the ammeter. The one that was picked up at a salvage yard does not have this extra mounting screw and is currently installed on the truck.
The question is, how does power get to the ignition switch if not through the Violet wire and where should I connect the end of this Violet wire to on the starter? I'm hesitant because on the wiring diagram it says Resistor (by pass) in the mounting location of the wire on the starter, which is what I'm trying to identify, and therefore do not want to incorrectly connect it and screw something up down stream.

It appears that at one time the truck had a solenoid starter. With the foot actuated starter there was no start terminal on the ignition switch or the starter. You don't need this wire with a foot starter.

The side terminal on your foot switch is to provide 12V to the coil when the switch is closed. When the switch is open reduced power is supplied to the coil from the ign. terminal on the ignition switch, through the ballast resistor which should be on the firewall.

The way it has been hooked up is that the top stud where the battery connects to the starter there too is a wire that goes to the ammeter. Nothing has been hooked up to this side terminal adjacent to the stud and currently the starter on the truck has no side terminal. Should this be changed and reinstalled? All the wiring diagrams I have seen never show a wire running from this side terminal to the coil to allow 12V when the switch is closed as you have described. They have always showed this Violet wire going to the Start terminal on the ignition switch from the Resistor (by pass) terminal on the side of the starter. Is this Resistor (by pass) the same thing as the "side terminal" we have been referring too?

Update:
Finally got power to the ignition switch by repairing a lot of damaged wires (genius previous owner). My lights still aren't working but I've traced power to the fuse panel and to the light switch so I'm thinking faulty switch (replaced the fuse to no avail). Other opinions?
Should there be 3-4 volts flowing through the ignition switch when the key is not turned over?
Still would like previous question addressed.

Hy nickcs2004, as has been said the violet wire was used to activate a key operated starter which the V8 powered and Hydramatic equipped trucks had in these years. The resistor bypass terminal usually carried a pink wire which went from the other small terminal on the solenoid to the coil side of the ballast resistor. On the 12 volt foot starters a small terminal was installed on the contact housing, a wire from this terminal went up to the coil side of the ballast resistor, the only time power goes out from either of the resistor bypass terminals I described was when the engine was being crancked by the starter, hope that helps

Thanks, for the clarification on the use of the Violet wire. Still, how you describe it contradicts how the wiring diagram displays it. It clearly shows it running from the resistor by pass on the starter to the ignition switch. What you are saying is that a completely different wire connects to the side terminal on a non-solenoid foot starter and runs from there to the coil side of the ballast resistor. This means that this side terminal is not the resistor by pass terminal shown on the wiring diagram and in fact is something completely different.
Also, this side terminal, which is on the "contact housing" adjacent to where the battery and ammeter connect to the starter, does not just allow power to leave the system when a foot actuates the starter. Instead this side terminal allows power to flow through the system when the foot starter is not operated and this foot switch is in the open position. I've decided this by taking the contact housing off and examining how the side terminal works. It has a contact plate that shorts the switch at all times. Knowing this what is the use and final destination of the side terminal, since it is not a resistor by pass.

In a previous post you say your start switch doesn't have a side terminal ("...currently the starter on the truck has no side terminal."), now you say it has one that is closed all the time. It makes it hard to help you.

The wiring diagram in the shop manual is for an 8 cylinder truck with a key start switch. The resistor bypass system on them is different than a bypass system on a 6. On the V8s there is an ignition 1 terminal and an ignition 2 terminal. When the key is turned to 'start', 12V is sent directly to the coil. When the key is released to 'on' 12V is sent to the ballast resistor which reduces the power to the coil.

Since you say your truck has a key start position and the purple wire, I'm guessing your truck was a V8 truck from the factory. You can't use the switch bypass system from the solenoid starter of the V8 on the mechanically operated starter of the 6.

You need a starter switch like this on your starter wired as stated above.

Hy nickcs2004, the terminal on the side of the contact housing on a foot starter should only be in contact with power when the starter is engaged and cranking. The solenoid starter operates in the same way, when the engine is running the resistor bypass terminals have a powered wire connected to them, but the terminal is not connected to anything else, so there is no problem.

Ok, I have thoroughly confused everyone.
The truck had the starter switch with the side terminal. Here is how I've been refering to the parts in my posts:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/...ter%20Switch/Starterwithsideterminal.jpg
The truck currently has a different starter in it without the side terminal that is shown in the above picture. When the original with the side terminal was in the truck it didn't have anything hooked to the side terminal.
My shop manual has the wiring diagram for the 235 and it clearly shows the violet wire going from the resistor (by pass) terminal on the starter, whatever that is, to the Start position on the ignition switch, see link:
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk214/PirateYarr/1957%20Chevrolet%203104/Wiring%20Diagram/
The truck is not an original V8, though I wish it was. I know this via the VIN number.
The side terminal after examination seems to be a short between the internal starter switch at all times (I disagree with 3B, sorry, but power doesn't look to flow only when starter is engaged). Again, I'm unsure of it's use and what to do about this different Violet wire beast, which I've been told is not necessary when used in a foot start vehicle and hence is abandoned.

I say again, there is no start position on a factory equipped 235 ignition switch.

Cletis, did you look at the factory wiring diagram?

nickcs - go back to your wiring diagram and look at the lower left corner "View C" that's the correct wiring for your 6 cyl engine/starter/ignition switch as shown on the left side of the diagram [or use this one if your switch is different] ... 3B is exactly correct, that side terminal is to provide power to the coil bypassing the ignition resistor, whether you understand it or not .... you've made it clear above your wiring is hashed, bring it back to the factory diagram and quit confusing yourself

Bill

My ignition switch seems to be bleeding voltage. When engaged it pushes 12v but when in the off position it still pushed 3-4v through. In my mind this is not right, but is this correct and this small voltage has a purpose that I'm not aware of? Replacement ideas? Something that I can get at a local auto store that will work and not cost 40 bucks like I've seen in the parts catalogs online?

where/how are you measureing? can't think of any way the simple open/close contacts could "push" anything other than all or nothing

Bill

A standard voltmeter is the tool.
I've measured at every terminal on the back of the switch using the chassis/bolt as a ground. I realize that the Bat terminal should always have 12v if I remember right since there is no switch between the battery, ammeter, and ignition switch. To be thorough I checked the voltage at the fuse panel and it was still receiving 3-4v from the switch when closed. When open everything read 12+ volts.

have you sorted thru the wiring to make it all correct with the diagram? the fuse panel [which would be factory only if more than 1 electrical option was also installed] should be connected to the red wire on the ign sw, which should be hot all the time as it also goes to the ammeter, the light switch, and the battery terminal on the starter [your lights do work without having the key on? oh, yes, that was the original problem]

you are no doubt measuring a voltage through something else when the key is off, 3-4V is not a possibility on a properly wired system, it's 12V or no volts - which is to say something is wired wrong, sort it all out - back to the top, the violet wire needs to be connected properly to the side terminal on the starter, it provides a full 12V to the coil when you press the starter, bypassing the resistor .... a red wire should be battery voltage to the switch, ammeter and lights - revisit your wiring diagram, it shows colors .... and the 57's were all originally 12V

Bill

Thanks, Bill. I'll do just that when I get back to the truck. I'm in a different city now and won't be back until mid Oct. I'll post my findings once I dig into it.

Tracked down my problem today; partly due to a bad headlight switch. Got the replacement one in and still nothing, but now I actually have 12v running through the switch and being disconnected when light switch is fully in. Started tracing the voltage and measuring it along the way and found there to be oddities in the fuse panel. Rearranging how things were connected at the panel, with my wiring diagram by my side, I finally got power to the headlights (score!) but still no interior lights.
As a side note I was stumped on how my dimmer switch was working for a bit. When I clicked the dimmer switch the headlights would display differently (hard to explain). They would shine differently when the brights were on. Thinking they were wired in reverse of each other (hi-low) I found that whoever installed the latest headlight put it in upside down. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put in a headlight bulb does it?
Analyzing the fuse panel I truly believe the rest of the problem lies there. The wiring diagram is very vague when it comes to the fuse panel. Can someone send me a picture of their fuse panel and the associated type and amperage of each fuse? If it could depict the colors of the wires to and from the fuse panel that would be of great help.
Thanks

the interior light gets power at all times from one terminal of the light switch ["D" for dome, orange wire], when you turn the interior light on the 'click' of turning the knob applies the ground [white wire] .... the factory fuse panel is labeled as to what things are and the colors are shown on the wiring diagram [accessories might be anything, but mostly just black and white] ... factory fuse panels are only installed if there's accessories, they don't carry fuses for the basics like main lights

backup - 9amp
heater - 9a
fog - 14a
park brake alarm - 9a
radio - 7.5a
spot lp - 9a
under hood lp - 9a
OD - 9a [under hood]
instr/tail - 3a [on lite sw]

Bill

Here's the thing the headlight switch connects to the fuse panel in the top left hand corner as does the heater switch both gray wires, and I assume power bulbs, but how do they get power?
The following is how my fuse panel is currently set up:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/...et%203104/Wiring%20Diagram/FusePanel.jpg
This is how I think it should be wired to get power to those two leads:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/...04/Wiring%20Diagram/FusePanelRewired.jpg

Thoughts?
What would be the amperage on that small fuse for those lights in my proposed wiring?

Wiring conclusions made today:
Got the blinkers working
Headlights worked until blinkers were added into the equation
Blinkers:
Fronts work all the time
Rear only works when the headlight switch is engaged in either the first or second pull
Running lights never work
Dome light doesn't work
Nor do any of the instrument lights including turn signal indicators
All bulbs have been checked

Does this spell out N E W_W I R I N G_H A R N E S S?

a proper harness would be very helpful, you obviously have a lot of incorrect connections and are misinterpreting some of them ... the turn signals front and back should work all the time if the key is on, which is where they get power [ACC terminal] - see wiring diagram on last page here, a factory harness would do it all for you

the headlight switch gets power directly from the battery via the red wire on the "BAT" terminal from the regulator, the ign sw gets power from the ammeter, again red wire - the connection to the fuse panel from the ign sw is so accessories like the heater get power only when the key is on, the connection from the light sw to the fuse panel is so some things [accessory lights] can get power anytime, just like the lights

Bill

See my headlight switch gets power from the red wire coming from the ammeter as does the ignition switch. Both are red and both pull from the negative side of the ammeter. The positive side is from the starter/battery. The the red wire on the the headlight switch then goes to the top right corner of the fuse panel. This is how the wiring diagram shows it to be wired.
I understand that the wire from the headlight switch gives power all the time and how the ignition switch terminal on the fuse panel gets power only when the key is on.
I've found that I am getting power through the headlight switch to the fuse panel and am getting full voltage through all terminals on the headlight switch though I was having troubles reading the dome lamp voltage. So the schematic I drew up can be disregarded.
I'm going for a MC ride through the Cascade Mtn. range to blow off some steam. Hope to get back to it tonight.

Got most all of the lights working again except the dome light, blinkers, and running lights are being a bear but I've got it on the run now.
Thanks to all that answered this thread.