The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Bad paint job.

I have been to every car show over the last 30 years of my life and I have never seen a paint job that didnt have flaws or develop flaws, regardless of how much money was spent by the owner.
Even if it looked good on the outside, just look in the door jambs, around deck lid or hood and you will find some bad looking stuff.
I cant make myself spent 15 grand for paint job and have that to look at. What happens to these cars? Just curious..

If you've ever painted a car you know what a monumental project it. It's nothing but meticulous detail work requiring the closest attention to the smallest things. You can't miss anything because if you do it will come back to haunt you. Combine all of that with the fact that anyone you hire is not going to actually have to look at it every day, and they have to make money on the job and you can quickly see that perfection is expecting a lot.

Having said that, unless you are looking for a concourse finish you can paint your truck yourself for a LOT less and with today's paint and polishing systems it can turn out looking darned good.

Thanks Czechman for your comments. In thinking along these lines, I was told of using a primer that is out now.
I was told its tintable and has no chipping or waxing that has to be done.
If I recall the conversation correctly it was something that could be bought at the local parts store for a very cheap price, like 25 per quart. I think a lot of street rod guys are running it.
If anyone knows more about this I would appreciate the info because I can tell you right now that I am not paying someone to paint my truck.

I traded labor with a local guy to paint my car after looking at his car and agreeing on what i wanted and what he wanted. After i got my car painted, i was unhappy. He fixed a few things, but there is more wrong with it and i need to redo a bunch which is why it just sits unfinished. If you pay someone for work to be done or however the work is to be accomplished, i feel you should get what you expect not just what the other person feels is good enough. Those little details will drive you nuts if you settle for less than your perfection. Maybe it costs more but i learned its worth any amount of money. I never will trade labor for anything again.

Stoney - if you're thinking of a permanent primer job, what you want is epoxy primer, which is tintable in a limited range, but 25$ a quart isn't likely for anything worth using

also you might try to find an original truck to look at and note the quality of the finish, can't imagine any modern repaint any worse than a 50's assembly line job

Bill

Same here... it always ends up the same way - someone gets screwed.

I agree, things just dont ever seem to work out where both people are satisfied in the end when bartering. Definitely can hurt some friendships too.
I know today, you are not going to find a body shop or even a one man crew painter that will do work for you at the right price and quality work. Its all about how much they can rake in off insurance jobs. They give you these ridiculous quotes because you are going to make them lose money if you take up room in their shop.
Back to the subject, (dont want to get in trouble with moderator). OK Epoxy, make a note of that.
Like I say, I will deal with primer job because I know I could not own a car with paint peeling, forget it.
I would still like to hear more from guys and would appreciate commenting. You wont hurt my feelings. I am out to gain knowledge here. Thanks

"The bad welder becomes a good grinder."
"The bad painter becomes a good buffer."
Just finished painting a 58. To get it the way I like it ,I used 1500 grit wetsand, rubbing compound, finishing compound, then polish.The body work and prep is up to you, depending on how much time you have.
The new materials work well, I would suggest a good HVLP paint gun. Lots of info in the paint forum.

Good for you!

I just got two words Farm and Tractor Enamel (OK that's four) My buddy and I did my truck completely, both sides of all parts for under $300 in paint. Sandpaper and other incidentals cost a lot more than the paint did but I still have less than $900 in the total paint job.

Thanks FriedGreenTmater, I am on your trail. I have already been sniffing around that implement paint isle.
Mainly because the paint color will be consistent too.
I will see. I guess what I am learning so far is it is up to the person and their own preference and product they are comfortable working with.
I realized in saying this, that I have considered painting before for lots of items. But, I still think on my truck I want to run this primer material since I have heard it wont chip and doesnt have any maintenance to it like waxing.

Another option is Rustoleum paint. Most claim $50 paint job. But with brushes, rollers, paper, etc. your looking in the range of $150.

Here is the guide: http://www.rickwrench.com/index79master.htm?http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

Here is a guy who did a awesome job of it: http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40341

Its not a high dollar, show job. But it will look decent and keep the rust off for cheap. I am trying this now on my truck, as mu budget was mostly blow on mechanically expenses. Did primer job in the past and in 6 months it was surface rusting, unless epoxy primer is used.

PLEASE don't paint your truck with rustoleum or tractor enamel, unless that is the highest level of quality you ever want it to be painted. Will both of these work and look reasonably good... sure, but both of them will have to be stripped off if you ever want to do the job right later down the road.

Rustoleum does not have the durability (or shine or lifespan) of a properly applied BC/CC paint job. It never "completely" dries, and can have a tendency to peel off of even properly prepared surfaces.

Tractor enamel simply doesn't have the lifespan to make it a worthwhile alternative. Maaco uses a form of tractor enamel for their lower line paint jobs, that's how they can paint a car for $300 (that and the fact that they don't prep or tape anything well). This is also one of the reasons they only warranty enamel jobs for 6 months, they know that they are going to fade and weather quickly.

It's ultimately your ride, do what makes you happy. My thought is that if you can see the flaws in other peoples "professional" jobs, then you sure wont be happy with a quickie rustoleum or enamel job.

And I do paint for a living, not all paint jobs have flaws... it all depends on how much you are willing to spend for perfection (but $5,000 isn't going to buy it).

Also about the primer job,
The problem with primer as a finish is twofold:
1. No primer (not even epoxy) is meant to be weatherproof. It will eventually surface rust underneath the primer, although epoxy primer is the best option by far.

2. The problem with epoxy on a driver isn't as much water resistance as it is uv resistance. Epoxy primer has NO uv resistance. This is because it is formulated to be topcoated. Paint companies don't spend the money to add UV resistant properties to materials that are only meant to be used below the topcoat. This is why paint companies offer flattening agents to be used in their clear coats. The look of flat primer but the protection of clear coat.

CCH,

Thanks for bringing this up. Forgot to mention that. I am well aware of the need to completely strip the truck of paint if I ever move to a high end job, but others need to know this as well. I have done alot of research into the Rustoleum paint job, and it was the right choice for ME, as it would of delayed my project for a long time if I went with a traditional paint job. Anyone looking into these as options, do your home work and know what you are committing to before jumping head first into this. So far I am happy with my choice, but only time will tell. My truck will be garage kept as well, so UV/fading is not as big of a concern for me.

Well, I sure appreciate all that info. I went to a car show this weekend where a truck was running primer but had a satin clear over it I guess. I was sure looking good. CCH, how about running a tinted epoxy primer but adding a clear? My truck will be garaged too.
I guess you can read between the lines here CCH. I think the days of finding someone that will help someone spray his car or truck because he wants to help are over. I like to think it may still go on in the world we live but most likely not.
I dont have the money to spend on my truck, I am doing good not to keep from just selling it and giving up. I am disabled and just want some joy out of the old thing. Maybe some would be of the opinion that I shouldnt even own one if I cant put the money into it that they have to do it right.
There is always the option to run ratrod look I guess.

I know a guy who bedlinered the whole truck. He loves it, its tough as nails, no wax/polish needed-ever.

Just a thought? You may want to check out your local trade school or high school auto shop class. They're always looking for projects to work on? Perfection cost $ and requires a lot of time.

Here is my take on these expensive paint jobs costing $6000.00 - $50000.00.
This type of job belongs on a show car where it will not be subject to the elements such as parking lot bangs or weather related problems like hail.
The truck I am building will be a daily driver used to pull my boat or going to town for tender vittles and it will be subjected to parking lot dings and dangs. Here in California you can park it out at the very end of the lot where no one ever parks and when you come back there will be five cars around it. Why I just don't know but a new paint job is like a magnet for sure.
62Blue
Don

Sorry to burst your bubble boys (TMater & Stoney) but that stuff is strictly industrial enamel and will fade quickly. Ask me how I know. I've tried several brands of it too and all held up poorly. It's OK for farm machinery(duh) that will be left outside by a not too discerning farmer.

Just remember; "nice fresh clean oats are one price but they are cheaper after they have been processed through the horse".

If a truck is used for work and not show - a Maaco, Rustoleum, or Tractor Supply paint job will be just fine. A $10,000 paint job is not easy to touch up. Rustoleum comes in a touch up spray can for under $5. Just keep one behind the seat for emergencies.

And you can park closer to the store

Well said Dennis.
I park anywhere I want to including the wilderness.

On a serious note, I have been in the paint and body repair business for over 15 years. I know that automotive paint can be expensive, but there are some alternatives to expensive base coat clear coat systems. All of the major paint manufacturers such as Sikkens, PPG, and Dupont offer a by line of products under a different name. Example, PPG offers a line called Omni, you can purchase a gallon of single stage polyurethane paint with activator for around $150.00. Sikkens offers a by line called Lesanol. The point is you can save some money and still get a quality automotive finish. I agree with 53money pit, the industrial paints look decent initially but they will fade quickly. The price of paint has really gotten ridiculous, it is tough for the average Joe to afford. Another tip, most automotive paint stores have paints that either were ordered and not picked up or the customer did not like the color. These paints can be purchased for a fraction of normal cost.

I used Omni on mine and was VERY impressed with how forgiving it is and how it so closely matches what would have been the original enamel look.

My paint job isn't perfect but I'm darned happy with it and best of all I can say I did it myself and saved a ton of money in the process.

Dumb preplanning questions. I would like to follow many of your leads. Currently, Woody. In painting my 48 and save a ton of money. I stole that from Woody's response. lol

It would appear that each piece (excluding the cab) is about the same size. I mean door, fender (front or rear) bed side. How do you know how much to mix up so not much is wasted? If you are painting multiple pieces do you just multiply the amount by the number of pieces?

As for the cab, since it is big, do you paint it in parts since it is easy to paint the sides (front, back, and sides) then flip it on a side and do the top? Or do you get out the ladder?

How long do you have to get the paint out of the gun after you mix it?

After the paint job. Do you put thinner in the gun and shoot it into a bucket for clean-up? Do you ever use the liners for the gun bucket?

Thanks for any advice or comments

Dennis,

Only experience will help you pre-determine how much paint to mix, and I still wind up with more than I need just to be on the safe side. Here's a secret trick... You can store mixed 2K paint in the refrigerator for several days before it starts to thicken. I wouldn't recommend leaving it for more than 2 days for spraying, but when I painted my cab I brushed the areas I had taped over (center WS post, inside of cowl vent, around rear window opening) about 5 days later and it worked fine.

However, I have poured out a lot of mixed paint when I knew it would be a long time before I'd be painting again, Yea, it sucks to pour money down the drain (in a manner of speaking) but it sucks worse not to have enough to finish.

I was really sweating painting the roof of my cab. I thought of ways to paint it in sections but there is no seam anywhere that isolates one panel from another. So what I did was every time I put a coat of primer on I practiced how I would get even coverage on the roof. I used a ladder and it worked out, in fact the paint is smoother on the roof than it is a couple other places. My only advice is use a ladder and turn it in such a way where your arm that's holding the gun is closest to the cab. I'm a righty so that meant I was facing the rear of the cab when painting the passenger side and facing the front when painting the driver side. Holding the gun square to the surface is critical so practice, even if it means with an empty gun just to get the experience.

The pot life of paint depends on temperature and that information should be available on the data sheet. Regardless, you should have plenty time before it starts to thicken... it dries a LOT faster on the part than it does in the gun.

I've never used a cup liner.

Clean up is a PITA, no matter how you do it but get used to it because it's the nature of the beast.

I pour out what's left in the cup and put about an inch of lacquer thinner in, put the cap on, shake (hold your finger over the vent hole) and then just spray until it's empty.

Then I put another inch or two of lacquer thinner in the cup and use a 1-inch bristle brush to clean inside the cup and cap. Then spray until it's empty.

Next I put another inch in the cup and use shop rags to wipe down everything using the thinner in the cup. Then I spray out what's left until the cup is empty.

Next I unscrew the cup and nozzle and clean the nozzle parts with a bristle brush and blow it clean. Look into those tiny holes and be sure they are clear. I also remove the screen filter and clean it the same way. Then I use a bristle brush to clean the gun where the cup screws on.

I never cleaned the needle until recently and was happy to see no appreciable build up, just a ghost of color that wiped right off. Just to be on the safe side, I say clean the needle each time too.

When I'm done will all that I assemble the gun, put about a half-inch of lacquer thinner in the cup and spray until it's empty. Use a clean rag and thinner to wipe down the entire gun but be careful because lacquer thinner will frost the plastic lens on your regulator.

I know it sounds like a lot of work... because it is, but that gun has to be perfectly clean to work properly.

Just remember that once you are done no one is going give a fig over how much work you had to do to get to the finished job, they are only going to judge you by the finished product so keep that in mind at all times and discipline yourself that "good enough" is NEVER good enough. Don't cut corners, do the absolute best you can. That's the only way to minimize the amount of "mistakes" you will inevitably make.

Thank you very much. I should have known that the first answer would be 'from experience' you find out how much to mix.

I do have the extra door with bullet holes. I will practice with that. Maybe, I can spray rustoleum to check (get an idea anyway) quantity. As for quality - I guess that has to wait until I get to the real thing.

Thanks again for all your advice

I'm using Omni enamel, well engineered for the price, IMO-sells for about $80(ex. reds) gal here at my store.

It is due to these posts that I am convinced that I will paint my own truck, I would hate to have done all the other work and leave the paint to someone else.

Also, body shops will find everything wrong with any prep work done.

I plan to tent over my garage door opener rails to make a booth. then tape the plastic to the floor. Roof should be the only challenge.

You are my paint hero. I have a daily driver only vehicle ('49 as below) and I am headed for a Rustoleum or Tractor Supply paint job some day.

I just have to buy Tremclad up here to touch up Dennis's truck..different brand name but same company. Hunter Green.

I use PPG Omni as well but it is pretty thin.

And the clearcoat doesn't flake off, either

Might I add that a paint job is only as good as the preperation. Don't skimp or tell yourself "that's good enough". Also, if it's your first time painting, get extra advice if your applying metalics. I speak from experience.

Another bit of advice from experience: If there is any way you can get access to a paint booth, do it. Unless you are in an environment where you can see the reflections off your work you are bound to get uneven coverage. You have to be able to SEE your paint surface before you can determine if you have a smooth even coat.

At least try to have access to see the way a paint booth is lit and duplicate the light placement where you intend to paint.

PS. There is no way I'd ever attempt a metallic job for my first paint job. All the problems you can have with a basic color is multiplied many times when shooting metallics.