The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 vs 261

I have a chance to purchase a 261 that needs rebuilding (broken connecting rod) and put it in place of my 216.

My questions

What kind of HP and torque upgrade will this be? I don't know much about the HP and torque on the 216.

What is a fair price for a rebuildable 261. He wants $200 which in these parts seems fair.

What should I expect to pay to rebuild a 261. I may want to do the assembly myself.
Rich

PS my 216 is a 1953 the 261 i am looking ot buy is a 1954.

One more question. Will the 261 bolt up in place of my 216 without too much modification? The seller says the 261 will bolt right to the tranny (4 on the floor) in my 3600.

I don't mind doing some mods by don't want to change my tranny unless I have to. In that case would a T5 bolt to this 261?

Rich

I have a 62 261 in my 39 chevy with a t 5 behind it. Had the motor built by Tom Langdon of the Stovebolt engine co... Cost me 1600 with the block and it's stroked and bored.... My original 216 I think had 78 hp. This should be about 200hp

Matt

I believe it bolts right to your bell housing... I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong


Matt

Yes, use your 1953 clutch housing with the 1954 261 pressure plate and clutch assembly (assuming you have/had a 6v electrical system with both engines).

The '54 261 is perfect because you can use the stock water pump. As Tim pointed out, the bellhousing of a '54 mounts differently. Use the '53.

Great find. Go for it.

broken connecting rod?
That may mean the crank and block are both gone. The crank isn't special (any full-pressure 235 or 261 will work), but it's more money.
The block is completely different, and another block may be another $200.

Does it turn over 2 full turns?

Thanks guys.

I will go look at it this week. I beieve he has it apart and is going to upgrade to a more modern engine.

If it is all apart how will i know if the block and crank are ok? Do i have to have it checked by a shop?

Thanks again rich

So I can use my bell housing but nee the cluch assembly form the 54.

My water pump and oil pump are new so I may transfer those to the 261 if they fit.

My 216 is in great shape and runs very good. jusy not enough umph for todays roads and traffic.

Rich

Use ALL the stock parts, Flywheel, bellhousing, clutch, starter, etc. That '54 261 is a rare find and as mentioned especially as the water pump is in same position as old 216. I'd make sure the block did not break when the rod went, check at the bottom of the cylinder bores and all around inside and outside of crank case.

Rich,

As everyone has posted above, that 261 block could be a very good find. HOWEVER, do you have a guarantee that the block is rebuildable?

Besides the possible damage from the broken rod, these old engines might have been rebuilt more than one time over the years. The crankshaft and the cylinder bores get ground/machined during most rebuilds - they could be at the end of their "rebuildability". A replacement crankshaft is not hard to find, but a block that has already been bored .080 might not be a candidate for a rebuild.

A lot of good points have been made about what may have occurred withthis engine. But your question about how to find out can really only be answered by having it magnafluxed. Offer to split the cost and see what happens. If he won't go for it I'd pass or your $200 might be wasted.

"having it magnafluxed" does not tell you the bore size, if it was seized, or overheated, or if the crank was re-ground, or bent.
You don't need magnaflux to tell if there's a hole in the cylinder wall, or a crank journal is scuffed up.
It does require someone to completely dis-assemble and clean the entire engine, and I certainly wouldn't do that, and pay half the cost, to sell it for $200.

As a buyer, I'd agree to pay to have the block magnafluxed and spec'ed out for a rebuild. I would require that the seller agree to give me back what I paid for the block if the block is not rebuildable.

If shipping is involved, I'd pay for shipping to me, and I'd expect the seller to pay shipping back to him/her if the block is no good (and, if the seller wants the useless block).

Thanks Guys.

I have not contacted this seller again yet. He seems a good guy and is technically a neighbor. (I think 20 miles qualifies you as a neighbor in rural Maine.) The engine is all apart. He took it apart to see what was wrong with it.

I would like to pursue this only to gain a little power. My truck runs great but is slow on the long country road inclines. I don't need more speed 50 to 60 MPH is plenty for me. I just don't want to down shift because I can't make it over a hill in 4th gear unless I have a running start.

Assuming I can get him to agree that I will get my money back if the block is not rebuildable (which I am sure I can) what do you think it the best/ worst case scenario for the rebuild (and will this solve my dropping down to 25MPH on a long incline?)

Is it reasonable to assume $500 if I just need to hone the cylinders, replace what is broken, new rings, oil pump, gaskets and put it back together and worst, boring the cylinders, new pistons and connecting rods new crank and reassembly for $1500?

I spoke to my brother and he suggested checking it out and if it looks good buy it. But he also recommended not selling the old engine. My truck is all original. His opinion is that if I change engines I will hurt the value so I should be able ot reinstall the original if I ever need to. I am not as concerned about that.

Rich

how much will it cost to Magnaflux and spec this?

I am one of those who likes to keep things original, for me anyways. However, this is one of those upgrades that is considered a good upgrade. I don't think it would affect the resale value of your truck in a negative sense. It might actually add value. It is possible to use the old style valve cover to give it the look of the original motor. However, this upgrade is so popular that I have not seen where someone used the old valve cover to make it look original.

I also prefer original but my 1954 235 gave out and I had the rebuilt 261 on-hand. After I find and rebuild a 54 235, the 261 will again reside on the engine stand in storage.

I have put an older valve cover (54/55 235) on the 1960 261 (just for the heck of it). I toyed with painting it gray to look like a 235 but I painted it 261 alpine green. Go figure?

The 261 is noticeably stronger than the 235, but the 235 is quite adequate for cruising comfortably with the 3.55 rear-end conversion (another non-original component but it cannot be seen).

I'd keep your old engine.

If no one posts a recent cost of a machine shop checking out the engine/block (for cracks and for the crank and cylinder specs), call a few local shops and ask what it costs. Post your findings here.

For what it's worth: if I was rebuilding an engine and the crank and cylinders needed to be machined, I'd also replace the cam bearings.

how much will it cost to Magnaflux and spec this?

More than it costs to buy it.

worst, boring the cylinders, new pistons and connecting rods new crank and reassembly for $1500

Much more.

Rich,

Did you ever find the performance specs for the 216 and 261? If not, here is the "official" Chevrolet information for the 216 and the 261. If the stock 261 performance (47% greater peak HP, 25% greater peak torque) is not enough, there is always this May 1955 article to read.

That is really a nice looking truck!

A friend of mine just had his 1940 216 completely redone by a top notch shop. When they went to bore out the cylinders they found rust penetration from the water jacket. They installed sleeves and that was not cheap.

hoyt

thanks for the info. I looked over the charts but couldn't open the article

It appears that the 261 has a bout a 50% increase in power over the 216. That could do it.

The 261 link opens for me.

Here is another scan of the 261 article.

thanks
got it!