The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop How to know if I need to change the timing gears

Without opening up front of the engine that is FYI - the engine is a 235 in a 59 Apache.

We attempted to set my dwell/timing this weekend, first by changing out my distributor only to find that the new one wouldn't fire, so we went back to the old one. At various points in time the truck would run but not great, now it won't start at all (I went through the steps laid out by other posters here explaining how to put the distributor in). I tried checking the timing by using the ball on the flywheel lined up to the pin but I couldn't see the ball to save my life. Eventually gave up that route and marked the pully for the fan and a spot on the block and tried checking the timing with that. The marks only lined up 1-2 times out of maybe 10 rotations. The most significant result I can get by cranking the engine is a loud single backfire after several seconds of cranking; I know the plugs are getting a spark and the carb is getting fuel. My neighbor is convinced that the timing gears are shot but it seems a bit odd to me that the truck could go from running (albeit roughly) to not even starting in such a short span of time so I'm posing this question to you, any ideas what the problem might be?

Thanks!
Alden

Your neihbor needs to buy the beer. You are right. If the gears were wiped out it wouldn't have been running & the dist wouldn't turn. You have the dist. out of time. Get under the truck & remove the lower cover on the flywheel. Turn the flywheel till you find thesteel ball. Put a big chalk or paint mark around the steel ball. Pull #1 plug & turn the engine till you feel comp. coming out the plug hole. Then turn it till the mark on the ball shows up in the opening over the starter. Your dist. rotor should be pointing to #1 cyl. & the points should be just starting to open.

Oh when I turn the engine by hand I can find the ball just fine (it just doesn't stand out enough when I run the timing light over it). I've gotten the engine set to TDC and put the distributor in according to the instructions here: https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=632070#Post632070 and it ran fine yesterday morning, after we swapped the plugs out it still ran but it was pretty rough. Now it won't run at all and I can't figure out what changed.

We tried setting the distributor in the right spot (pointing to the #1 cyl wire) and one notch back and one forward, none would work for us, it's not even catching - it just cranks and cranks but nothing beyond a single big pop every once in a while.

Are you getting spark out of the coil? Are the points opening & closing? Did you mix up the spark plug wires?

yep there's spark and the points are opening and closing, there's also gas going to the carb, the wires are all in order (double checked that last night just to be sure).

One other thing I forgot to mention. I did change the plugs out yesterday as well. I gapped the new ones at .035 (per the service manual), the old ones were really fouled and were anywhere from .015-.025. I didn't think that would cause such a difference but I'm a relative idiot when it comes to working on cars so I figured I should throw that info out there.

sounds like your close,stop have a beer that your neihbor bought.recheck every thing. these old beasts can run with two plugs cross wired.if your timeing gear was bad you would of heard a lot of racket coming from the front of your motor like the a way bad water pump or alt. breanings sounds just before they fail.sounds like your one tooth off on your dist or 180 out.like wrechbender said mark your timing ball so it is easy to see. reset dist. check fireing order. I've been down this road my self.I've never be so sure about being right,except when I was 100% wrong.rechecking can be humiliating. humbly Floyd

I just noticed, in that thread I linked above there are conflicting statements for pointing to TDC. Is the triangle supposed to be lined up with the pointer on the bellhousing or is the O supposed to be lined up with the pointer? They are off by probably several inches on my flywheel so might this make a difference?

I had been lining it up with what I thought was ball, it was an "O" etched into the flywheel, when I turned the fan to rotate the engine I would see triangle, then a couple of vertical lines then the "ball" then a couple more vertical lines. So it would look like this (in series, on the flywheel itself the order is actually reversed): ^ | | O | |

yes you hit it right on the nose. the ball should be in view @TDC.then set your points to just open. OK now you are rough timed. should start? now enjoy niebors beer. so I can'nt spell.

If the pointer on the flywheel is at the ball, and the rotor is pointed to the connection on the distributor cap that is running to the plug in the number one cylinder does it matter where the rotor is pointing i.e. if looking at the engine 2 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 6 o'clock etc?

no just start your fireing order from there,clock wise.I'am sure?

yes where ever the rotor is pointing is #1. then start the fireing order from there. clock wise.I think?

sorry about the dbl. post.

It fired! I was asking similar questions on another forum and someone pointed out that when the ball is matched up to the pointer it could be at #1 or #6 which must be what my problem was (after we changed the plugs and we went to adjust anything I hadn't made sure the #1 cylinder was up, I was just focused on the ball). I went through the instructions from the start today including pulling my valve cover to make sure it was #1 that was up and after changing the points put in my new distributor and when it was all said and done it started up. It seems a bit weak and doesn't idle super smooth but it does run so I think I'll leave it at that and take it to a shop to let them time it properly.

pictures of the (mostly) successful install:
picture 1
picture 2
picture 3

Thank you all for your help with this!