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I have a '46 with a 216 that won't start. I'm trying to get it to life after a decade. Electrically, I've cleaned connections, replaced wires. New pts, rotor, cap, plugs, condensor, and a battery. I've got spark on all the plugs. I've soaked the carb in mineral spirits and then TSP, dried it out and reset it. There is a new fuel pump with new gas getting to the carb. I have compression. Everything is primed.
At first I thought I had the distributor wires going to the wrong cylinders. Which I did. I've now got #1 cylinder (fan end)set to the rotor with the flywheel pointer right on the BB. If you look at the truck manual it looks to be right. #1 wire is at 60d on the cap and then 53624. After this I tried starting fluid down the throat and I can't even get that to fire. Can somebody give me some advice on this. I would think I'd get some coughs. I have spark at all cylinders and the new plugs have some residue and I think smell like gas. Am I 180d off in rotation, or should I align to the triangle? I've read both sides for that but my age truck seems to favor the BB. Anyway now I have flooded the engine(the manifold seems to be swimming when I look down there) Or is it a bad carb? I planned on rebuilding it, but thought it should atleast get me some engine life. Any thoughts?

641Workmaster,

Several thoughts come to my poor old mind. You obviously know about being 180 degrees out of time. Unless you have confirmed that #1 is on TDC when you do your BB thing, you might be going in circles.

The valve train can get pretty funky after sitting that long. If you can pull the valve cover and see that all is well, and all is working, you could scratch that off your list.

A compression test would really help you evaluate what you have to work with. If half the valves are stuck open, getting the truck started could be tough.

Have you put a plug wire to a ground as you cranked the engine...you should get some spark.

Your 'economy' carburetor rebuild would worry me a tad.

Do some of the things listed above and give it another try. Good luck.

Stuart

check the compression then put a cylinder on TDC on the compression stroke and see if that jives with the rotor alignment.

atomarc,

I put my thumb on the #1 hole and it blew off at those conditions described above. So I'm pretty sure thats OK now.

I also have spark the way you suggested.

I have pulled the valve cover a couple of times to lubricate and watch. They all appear to be opening and oil is being distributed. I'll recheck that though more closely.

I'd try the compression test but I don't have access to the older style tester for the 10mm plug hole. As I said before my thumb gets blown off each cylinder.

I'm leaning towards a carb problem, I'll check to see if any gas is being sprayed from the main nozzel. Just checked the carb. My problem seems to be here.

Earlier this week, I bought a new pump from the part store and put it on. I then cranked the engine until it was spewing gas into a cup at the carb. So I hooked up the carb and forgot about it. Now I discovered that the glass bowl is empty and refuses to fill or even prime the line now. Is this defective? or is it more likely in the line from the temp. tank to the filter?

Kyle

Clarification! My problem is the fuel filter but I wouldn't be surprised at the carb too! When I checked the carb it seemed to be dry so I pulled the line in and that's when I discovered the afore mentioned fuel pump problem.

641Workmaster,

You DO have the situation well in hand. If you installed the new fuel pump and it did fill the cup at the carburetor, it shows the install was proper and the fuel line is clear.

You indicate you are not using the fuel tank in the truck, but a temporary setup. So this means there is no doubt that these things are 'crap free' and your pump should work.

If the line to the carburetor were to be plugged at the carburetor, or the float stuck shut, I am not sure the pump would pass fuel up the line to fill the filter bowl.

If you crack the line at the carburetor, I would bet fuel would flow...watch out for fires!

I think the pump is fine. If the suction side of the pump is leak free, the pump is new and installed properly (sometimes tough to do) then it will pump..unless it is blocked at, or in the carburetor.

I sort of feel the same as you do. It seems like the old girl should as least let out a snort or pop to show she is trying.

Stuart

641, Have you tried pouring a SMALL capful of gas directly into the carb before tryi ng to crank it? this should get at least a snort out the engine if Ingnition,timing,compression are at least close.

Thanks for the thoughts...

I did put several cap fulls of gas in the carb and starter fluid but I think it just pooled in the intake manifold. I've disconnected the fuel line at the carb and it still won't send fuel through, nor will the fuel pump bowl fill. The connection from the tank did have a small leak but I've tightened that. Still won't fill. The line to the carb was taken off and cleaned so I don't think anything is plugged there.

I'm thinking about cleaning and putting the old pump back on. Maybe I'll exchange the new one.

Still mystified about no snorts though. I'll make sure I get a full charge on the battery, starter fluid, and maybe rotate the cap wires 180d to double check. We'll see what happens then.


Kyle

atomarc,

Actually I don't have a glass filter bowl. I was making reference to the glass cap on the fuel pump itself. It won't hold any gas and appears not to be leaking at the seal. Any thought on that?

Kyle

Pull the plugs and inspect them are they wet? If so they may never work again. With the plugs removed block off the fuel line so no more fuel can reach the engine and block open the carb. throttle plate. (WFO) Now with the distributor unpluged (no spark) spin the engine over till all signs of fuel are gone from the intake. This may take a while if the intake is "swimming with fuel" as you described use a heat lamp to warm the intake and help remove the fuel. Go get some more new plugs, (yes I know they are new) go get some new plugs, Again go get some new plugs.
Spin the engine again (no fuel no spark) till you have no signs of fuel. Then install the new plugs you just bought. (don't clean the old ones yes I know they are new). Connect the distributor but not the fuel line unblock the throttle. Now use your starting fluid, a short burst and crank. Did it fire? If so remove the carb. and overhaul it, replace the float. Before you hook up the fuel line check the fuel pressure. 3 to 6 lbs. is ok. now spin the engine to refill the carb bowl. Look down the throat of the carb. See excess fuel? No? Good! Yes? Replace the carb. It has a crack. Start this puppy and go fo a spin.

when I have a problem like that,, I changed the plugs first and then keep on trucking

Not sure about a 216 bell housing and the timing opening/hole, but if it's anything like a 235 and has two holes, make sure you are using the one above the starter when you line up the BB.

Hey, I'm an apprentice now!

Well I seem to have two new problems. I had already started using Toyvo's remarks about opening up the throttle and warming it overnight. I hadn't heard about the plugs being no good if wet. They still create spark though even though they appeared to smell like gas at times. Still replace? Anyway I'll try your route.

The second problem appears at the fuel pump. In the bowl at the hole by the intake, air is bubbling up into the bowl. The engine will eventually pump fuel to the jar at the carb but the fuel in the bowl bubbles back into the hole.

Now, I'm using a rubber line into a gallon gas can that sits a litte lower than the pump. Could this be happenning?

The intake connection is loose sucking in air and the gas tank intake being lower than the pump be sucking the gas back to the tank? Or could it be that there is a hole in the diaphram sucking air and leaking it into the oil pan? My dip stick seams to be overfilled now and thinner looking(no signs of radiator fluid and the level hasn't dropped)

Oilrag, yeah, I used the inspection hole by the starter.

Thoughts?

Kyle

atomarc,

Actually I don't have a glass filter bowl. I was making reference to the glass cap on the fuel pump itself. It won't hold any gas and appears not to be leaking at the seal. Any thought on that?

Kyle

Kyle,

Lots of things going on. A functioning fuel pump should gush fuel out the line at a very good pace.

The pump has check valves in it that don't allow fuel to drain back. A broken diaphragm will allow fuel to leak into the crankcase.

The pump should be installed with the bowl up. This will put the IN and OUT in there proper places.

When you installed it, it should have offered resistance as you forced the lever against the cam lobe. They are not a slip on deal.


You must have fuel in whatever tank you are using and the supply line must be clear, as well as the discharge fuel line.

These statements seem quite obvious, but sometimes these are the things that are overlooked.

Stuart

atomarc,

The pump will gush out at the carb for only a few spurts and then occasionally. I then check the bowl and see the bubbles from the intake line.

I consulted the exploded view in the manual and see how the stop valves keep gas in the "upper" line. According to this, I think I have a bad leak in the intake fitting. That is the only place air can come from. The diaphram should be OK.

At this point a new fitting, and relocating the gas tank above the pump should solve this. My thinking is that the lower gas tank is sucking the fuel back due to a leak at the intake. Then it drains the bowl and eventually gas slowly leaks out the fitting. Could I be right?

Otherwise I've already adhered to your suggestions. Thanks Stuart.

Kyle

if the plugs are wet,,, it wont start...dont ask me how I know..

Kyle,

Remember the combination of gushing gas, sparking starters and zapping plug wires can make for an unplanned barbeque.


Stuart

Joker,

Ok, I won't.

Kyle,, you may not be that lucky.. a while back my 70 internatonal halfton with the 232 would not start for love or money... a few weeks prior it was running like a top... at any rate, I bought me a new coil, points and plugs......

put the plugs in first............dang thing started right off the bat....the plugs were very wet, I suspose from all the flooding, pouring gas in the carb and such trying to get it started.... just a thought for you.. good luck with it..

Fred

Well, well...

I think I'll call it a day. I solved the fuel pump issue, it was as I suspected. Pumps great now.

Cleaned up all signs of gas in and out of the engine. Filled carb bowl. Hooked everything back up. Sprayed starting fluid down open throat. Hit the starter......got two backfires.

Ok, atleast its trying. Thats all I'm looking for at this point. Signs of some life. So I notice gas leaking around the carb and inspect the manifold again. Its got a 1/4" of gas standing in it. :confused: Is it safe to assume the carbeurator is shot at this point?

Anyway, I'll drain the gas lines and bypass the fuel supply sytem at this point. Remember, I'm just trying to get it to hit on all 6 I'll try a few shots of starting fluid to see if it will run and not backfire at this point.

About the carbeurator. I'll pursue that in a new topic.

Thanks for all the insight guys!

If you have 1/4" of gas in the intake I think that it is safe to assume that the Float,Needle, and seat in your carb are not doing their job. Try a rebuild kit in the carb first.

Here's a scary thought. If I removed the carburetor to take apart and still wanted to fire the engine; could I still squirt starting fluid down the manifold? Or am I asking for the fire department to come?

Yeah, it'd start---and run wide open. It's the throttle plate at the bottom of the carb that regulates air flow, thus rpm, and with no restriction it's katy bar the door. Actually it would only get to 6000 rpm and then stop itself by depositing the bottom of the block and all it holds onto your garage floor.