The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 won't start

I have a 216 in a 1949 3/4t that was running great. I rewired it recently and crossed a couple of leads on the voltage regulator so that the battery wasn't charging off the generator. At any rate, the battery ran down and the motor started missing on acceleration and then quit. I recharged the battery , but now I can't get the motor to start. I've changed coil and condensor. The plugs were fouled so I cleaned them up. Points looked ok and I haven't replaced as of yet. I changed an inline fuel filter in front of the carb and gas seems to be getting to the carb. It may be a timing problem, but I think I have the points set correctly. Wires are set 153624 on distributor. I have the points opening on the compression stroke in #1 when the ball is in the timing hole on the passenger side of the engine. I'm lost and frustrated.

scottbit,

Welcome to the helpful land of Bolts. It sounds like you know your stuff, so I would just add a few comments.

It seems that the problems started after the wiring incident, so one would assume they could be related.

The battery must have a good, full charge and spin the engine with "vigor". You mentioned generator, so I guess this is still a 6 volt system.

If you have a tester, make sure you have voltage to the key side (+) of the coil while cranking. You can pull a plug wire and touch it to a ground to verify power to the plugs.

Remember, the 6 volt system must be in top notch shape to start the truck properly. It might be interesting to help the rig along with a booster or a jumper battery and see if that does the trick.

If the rig ran fine before the battery fizzled, nothing was tampered with on the engine, and now it won't start, the logical conclusion would be the starting system.

All the standard items should be looked at in addition to the obvious. Is there fuel in the tank..do you have spark..are the points working properly. These items must be in good shape, but the primary culprit could be the battery or starting system. Good luck and keep us posted!

Stuart

Stuart:
Thanks for the reply. The system is a negative charge 12v system. Having the battery run down was more than
likely what killed the engine. The confusing thing is that I didn't change any thing, recharged the battery and now it won't start. Could I have messed up the coil, points, rotor with the discharged battery? I did rewire the voltage regulator properly by the way.

scottbit,

Someone took the time to install a 12 volt generator on a '49..pretty neat. Have you made sure you have voltage on the key side of the coil. If the rig was converted to 12 volts, some type of start/run resistor must be hiding in the system somewhere.

If it spins over nicely when starting, and you have spark as you ground a plug wire, then the problem is elsewhere.

If the truck actually died from a lack of fuel, and it just appeared that it was a lack of charge, then you will have to investigate that area.

If you can verify you have spark to the plugs and fuel THROUGH the carburetor into the engine and all this is happening when it is suppose to,(timing), you have narrowed your search. Verify these things first. One might be missing.

Stuart

When you say "negative charge 12v system", do you mean negative ground? It should be negative ground since it's 216 which would indicate Chevy rather than GMC.

Baldy:
You're right. I meant negative ground and it is a Chevy. I did find out that I didn't have a ballast resistor hooked up between my fuses and the coil which is why my coils were overheating.

do you have spark???do you have fuel at the carb???do you have fuel in the carb???doc

scottbit,
If you are using the system you describe, remember that your new coil needs to indicate "external resistor required" and that when "starting", any resistor should be bypassed.

Stuart

Stuart:
I have a coil for an external resistor. I guess I don't understand what you mean when you say the starter must be bypassed. I thought I would run a wire from the ignition fuse panel terminal (on firewall) to ballast resistor terminal and then from the other ballast resistor terminal to the coil + . The other coil - terminal to distributor. Is that right?

Doc:
I have fuel at the carb. Have spark at the points. I need to check fuel in the carb and at the sparkplug,
right? To check fuel in the carb, would I just press accelerator rod and see if gas is squirting in from the float bowl? What's the best way to check for spark at the plug?

scottbit,

The ignition resistor reduces the voltage to the coil to around 8 volts while the truck is running. When you start the truck, there is a switch on the starter, or sometimes in the key switch itself that supplies full battery voltage to the coil. This makes up for energy lost to the starter and gives the ignition system a little extra oink for starts.

You should have two wires going to the key side of the coil, OR, two wires on the coil side of the ballast resistor. If you have a stomp starter, there might be a small lug on the side of the switch that supplies this battery voltage to the coil only when starting.

Stuart

You will have to replace the points if you were running without the ballasrt resistor.

scottbit,

As Baldy stated, change the points if you were running without a ballast resistor. There is a good chance your points were burnt when you ran without a ballast resistor. Have you changed the points and condensor since you had this starting problem?

Just to be certain,

1. Are you using an external ballast resistor or a coil with an internal resistor?

2. Do you have a foot starter or a solenoid starter?

3. Is there a small wire going from your starter to the coil or to the coil side of the ballast resistor?

Just wondering: do you have a voltage reducer on the power side of your fuel gauge (this has nothing to do with your starting problem)?

Tim

I think I have my electrical issues resolved and I went ahead and replaced condensor, coil, plugs, rotor and points. I am getting gas to carb and seem to have a spark at #1 plug. Still can get the 216 to fire. Question: when looking at valveswith the valve cover off, they are closing when they move up, right? I think I have a timing problem with either the dizzy being off a tooth or two or points/dwell not being right. Help!!

scottbit,

It sounds like you are making progress. Did you have the distributor out? If you really have spark and fuel it will run...if it is timed properly.

Make sure your point gap is proper, then loosen the distributor and rotate it as someone tries to start the truck. You are looking for a pop or even a blast back through the carburetor.

This will tell you all is well, just not at the proper time. If you actually did pull the distributor, it is important that when it was reinstalled that the tang on the end is seated in the oil pump.

This can be confirmed by making sure the body of the distributor is setting flat and proper on the block...not sitting up.

If you can rotate the distributor as the rig is cranking and get any bang or pop out of it, you then just need to time it properly. Don't let it go up in flames!

The valves are closed when the rocker comes OFF the valve stem. If they are mechanical lifters, you should have "gap" or a little wiggle between the rocker arm and stem when the valve is
completely closed.


Stuart

Thanks Stuart. I'll try that after work. I'd like to think I'm close, but it is frustrating. I've had the distributor cover off and plugs in and out of the motor so many times that I'm getting dizzy.

If you rewired it and replaced the battery cables, that could also be an issue. The 6V systems require a ton of amperage and I've experienced inability to start on a car with a brand new - yet undersized - cable. May be as simple as the block not getting properly grounded, or not enough amps flowing out of the battery.

-Boyo

scottbit,

It can become frustrating. In the beginning, only the wire/battery situation was mentioned.

If the distributor was removed, points and condenser replaced and things just generally tinkered with, the playing field has changed.

Without trying to insult your mechanical IQ, each of these operations must be performed correctly or the truck won't start or run.

Reinstalling the distributor and static timing it is straightforward, if you know how to do it!

Double check your work and verify that each step is proper, check it off and move to the next item. The proof of the pudding will be when you turn the key and Mr. Truck roars to life.

Stuart

have you tried to start it by pushing it?

Were the plugs gas fouled or oil fouled. I have had vehicles (more than 1) that would not start ater the plugs were fouled. The only thing that made them fire after that was replacement. Hey these were plugs that afer cleaning looked new. Some times after a plug has fouled the ceramic part soakes up so much fuel you will never get it out no matter how good the plug looks.

Mine was giving me trouble for a while, all the electrical was fine. Turns out the carb had gunk in the jet and would barely run. It squirted fuel great. Then I would have a hell of a time starting it. Sometimes it would, other times it wouldnt run. But it ran fine for weeks up til it got gunked up and I figured it had to be something else because it ran fine before.

If its possible it could be electrical, Id disconnect the wires from the battery, only hook up the starter and run one wire to the positive side of the coil, and one from the neg side of coil to distributor. That way you know for 100% sure whether or not something in the wiring is the culprit. You bypass everything else completly.

Also Ive seen people on here before with 12 and 6 volt parts that were mixed up. Could that have happened?

You havent said if you removed the distributor? I wouldnt think it was off a tooth if it ran fine before, unless removed or broken?

Let us know! Jeff

Toyvos right. New plugs. Its a cheap check and the same thing happened to me.

awhile back my 70 international would not start, was running previous,, I never drove it much, just started ever once in awhile.. at any rate, could not get it to start for beans,, bought me a coil, points, condenser and plugs........ I installed the plugs first as I was going to do this one step at a time so I would know what the problem was, the old ones were really oil or gas soaked, it started right up... so I took the coil back but still have the points and condenser should i need them.. that was the first time that ever happen to me so you live and learn..

Could the voltage regulator be fryed and keeping it from firing ?

I had a similar problem once on a '68 Volvo 122. Best car ever made by the way. Anyway, I tried all the usual steps like making sure fuel was getting to the carburetor and spark was getting to the plugs. Went through a whole 6-pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon trying to figure this problem. I figured I must have broken a timing gear or something like that. Took the front timimg gear cover off and found that everthing looked great. Finally, after a couple more ice cold PBR's I was looking at the points again and noticed that the distributor was sticky. When I grabbed the rotor and twisted the shaft I could feel it sticking. Replaced the distributor and the car has been running like a sewing machine ever since. What was happening was the distributor was not setting the rotor at the correct point because the shaft was hanging on a burr or worn groove or something like that.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I got it running last night. It was a combination of me screwing up the distributor when I pulled it out to change points and condensor. It was off probably one tooth when I put it back in. In the meantime I noticed that gas was still draining into the carb when the motor was off.
I pulled the top of the carb off and cleaned the bowl and needle valve and blew some air on it and reinstalled it. Fired it up and timed it with a timing light and it is running great and no flooding prior to starting. Good to go.

good deal. I did not realized you had pulled the dist....that would do it.........

joker,

Does your comment mean if you pull the distributor and reinstall it the truck won't run!


Stuart

if you do dumb stuff like I do and dont get it in right, it wont...............or if you take it out and then try to turn it over, you might be in for a suprise later............