The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Tons 'o Fun Is your 1-ton a manual or automatic?

And are you happy with it?

I own five 1-ton trucks at the moment. Two are factory automatics and at least one of the manuals is going automatic.

'89 K3500 has a TH400. It's wrecked and really only a parts truck now, but I was happy with it when it was usuable.

'54 GMC 250 with a Hydra-Matic. The motor runs poorly and the transmission is clunky. As a factory auto I think its cool and enjoy owning it.

'54 GMC 250 originally a manual. I think it was an SM420 but it came to me minus engine and transmission. This is the truck I'm putting a Cadillac 500 with TH400 into. I've called this a '55 1st in the past and the title does say 1955. However the evidence suggest it is more accurately a '54. Its unfinished but I expect to be happy with it, since I'm making all the design choices myself.

'51 Chevy 3800 panel. Manual probably an SH420 but came to me without it. Not a runner and may become a parts truck. It looks pretty ugly in the back lot.

'50 Chevy 3800. SM420. I've already stripped many parts off this one but lately have been thinking about putting it back together. Likely an auto if I do.

I have a bias toward automatics in my trucks. I feel an automatic eases the stress on components when dealing with a heavy load and it definitely eases the stress on me when dealing with heavy traffic. I might put together a six powered project with a manual but anything I intend to really use as a truck will have an auto.

Let the opinions fly!

i have a manual four speed crash box on my 40. i never need first gear because it sees no weight and i love it. after pulling out you either let the engine die down to almost idle to shift it or double clutch it or learn how to shift without the clutch. i do all of the above depending on the mood im in.

In my opionin if you are going to use a truck as a truck, and how it is going to be intended to be used, and you are pulling a heavy load up a steep long hill, you want a 4-Speed. For anything else you want a 4-Speed.
The only reason I would consider a automatic would be in a 1/2 old GM pickup with a modern automatic with overdrive for use as a economy vechile.
But that wouldn't be likely.
I like real trucks, 1-ton+ with manuals and no power anything.
(Niether of the trucks in my signature have power anything, except the F-350 has power brakes, the power steering doesn't work, so it's all good.
Thanks,
76F350, Anthony

It seems I may be in the minority preferring an auto in my truck. Good thing my shop is my kingdom and I get to decide!

Steve,

You know my opinion, lol, but I'll let it fly anyway. Other than what my wife drives (everyday car and spare car only) everything I have is Manual and Has to be Manual. Big Truck, Small Truck, Hot Rod, and Farm Tractor. Even all my Lawn Tractors are Manual.

To those who didn't see it, this started in the other thread when Speed posted about his '76 1-Ton. We felt we kind of Hi-Jacked his thread and Steve brought it over here.

I was commenting on how I like the SM 465 in his (Speed's) truck and how I am having a real hard time finding a Manual trans in some of the trucks I'm looking to buy. I'm looking at certain model Chevy and GMC trucks up to '94 and all I am finding is automatics. It's getting to be like a needle in a haystack.

Bill

My '64 C-30 1-Ton had Power Nothing. I used to kind of joke about it.
It had:
-Manual Trans
-Manual Steering
-Manual Brakes
-Manual Directional Lights (Didn't Cancel)
-Even had a Manual Radio

One of the best trucks I've ever owned. I'd still be driving it today, but I plum wore it out. Was not originally a Southern truck and was a little too rusty to restore. I still have it tho.

Bill

There was a time when I shared this bias toward manual transmissions and I remember giving a friend a very bad time about buying a pickup with an automatic.

His response was that as a farmer tending ditch he spent a lot of time in reverse, and the reverse ratio in his automatic allowed him to move much quicker in reverse than his old manual transmission trucks had. That truck was a '72 Ford and was nearly new when we had that conversation.

Nothing any of you has said has convinced me that a 'real' truck has a manual transmission. I understand the appeal of simplicity, which all that manual equipment can contribute to, but there is nothing about a truck that demands simplicity.

Years ago I remember a feeling of accomplishment when I was split shifting a 5 and 4. Today that just seems like a lot of work.

My uncle owns a Maxwell car from the teens. It has a floor shift 4-speed with no synchos. Mike's description of shifting his '40 truck reminds me of driving that car. Basically you have the same options, except I only drive it every five years or so and finding transmission parts would not be easy, so I rarely try my luck clutchless.

I'll second that "What???"
Now days a 4 speed isn't good enough, and 5 or more is the normal with an OD gear included.

Grigg

All the trucks (and cars) I've owned, and all the trucks my father has owned have been manual. Three 1 tons, two 3/4's and some smaller ones.
When I drive an automatic car (not very often) one of the first things I inadvertently do when approaching a stop is slam on the brake while looking for the clutch pedal. They make the brake pedal so large it covers where the clutch pedal should be...

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with modern automatics, in fact I'm quite impressed by the Allison 5 and 6 speed electronic ones.
But for now I really prefer a manual transmission.
That said I have intentionally used parts in my truck project with the idea of easily switching to a 3000 Allison if I ever want to in the future.

Grigg

Grigg,

If you ever give up the 10-Speed Road Ranger, just let me know, lol.

BTW, It's just not the durability of a manual or the tradition of a manual or the "more of control" of the truck the and engine with a manual, but, and besides the fun, it's the action of a manual. I would be bored to death with an automatic, yes even in traffic (plus I'm an old goat. I don't like changes, lol).

Bill

I think the reasons we've listed here really all come down to preference. Ignoring my 1-tons I have a mix of automatics and standards. I learned to drive trucks using a manual, though my dad bought an automatic truck about the same time I first swapped an automatic into an old truck. That was the mid-seventies.

My wife won't drive a standard so I have to make sure anything she may drive is an automatic. Today we license and insure four, two are auto and two are standard. She has yet to drive the automatic trans pickup so today she only drives her car.

My preference for autos has not prevented me from buying a number of manual transmission vehicles and may not stop me from buying another. But based on my increasing preference I do very much doubt I'll ever again purchase something with a manual that I intend to use as a daily driver unless a trans swap is in my plan. My 'collection' is likely to always include some manuals.

I know what you mean, I generally don't (didn't?) like how an automatic truck handles and tows.

But have you driven anything with the new Allison yet, the one behind a Duramax and the larger versions too in medium duty stuff? They literally learn how you drive and adapt to your style and the load, almost act like a manual as far as control goes.
You may change your mind on the control of a manual. Yes it's still an automatic, but they have come a long way and really are quite nice considering.

In fact now that I think about it I drove a U-haul up to Boston and back with a difficult to tow trailer behind. The van had a V10 and a ford automatic, and I was surprised how well it shifted and held back when I wanted it to. The ford transmission was not as good as a manual in my mind, but respectable none the less.

Even though I really do prefer a manual, and if I can help it doubt I ever buy an automatic truck, but one must keep an open mind and the new automatics really aren't that bad.

Grigg

Grigg,

No I haven't had the opportunity to drive one. The technology sounds interesting, but I doubt very much that one would ever win me over. With manuals the more challenging the more I enjoy them. The less challenging, well....

Maybe old, old age will change me. Time will tell.

Bill

I haven't driven a newer Allison either and though I've ridden in one many times (a co-worker I often lunch with) I've never ridden in one pulling a load.

My problem is paying for a new truck. Back in the employee pricing days a maxed-out gas powered dually was still over 40K and the Duramax added a bunch more.

Of course things like leather upholstery and GPS and alloy wheels all add up.

I recently spent 30K to buy my wife a VW. That was hard to do. I'm not just getting old I'm becoming a real tightwad. The VW and the decision not to buy a 40- to 50K new truck were both made before I got sick and had to go on disability so my current circumstances had nothing to be with being cheap-- I've been accused of having champagne taste on a beer budget since I was a kid.

Yeah, I know how that is. If it was like back in the old days when cars and trucks were more reasonable there may have been a chance, but good used will have to do.

The closest I ever came to new was a motorcycle. I bought a '72 Harley Davidson XLH Sportster (Made in Aug '72) in February '73. Only 6 months old, superb condition and only had 2000 miles on it. All for $2000 cash. Little did I know then that that would be one of, if not the closest one ever.

Bill

I did buy a new motorcycle back in my 20's and I've gifted my wife a new car recently. But as I look ahead to retirement I tend to ask how I'm going to feel about whatever it is if it means working one more year.

I maybe need to rethink that as a cancer patient on disability but my gut reaction is that being cheap is still the right plan, and since my retirement plans have to account for supporting a younger woman I expect to live another 50 years I have to be careful about feeding those investment accounts.

So right now I have less cash tied up in my nearly 20 cars and trucks, including parts trucks and my Corvette driver, than I paid for my wife's modest new car.

I meant to say, when pulling a long hill with a heavy load, I prefer a manual...
You can shift into granny 1st
---------------------------------
I have heard the new automatics (6 Speeds)
were better for towing...
I didn't mention 5-Speed Manuals because this is a forum for 72-Down trucks...
And I have never seen a '70s Truck with a 5-Speed. (Maybe only a mini-truck)
My point is manuals, are a pain in traffic, but better when you have to rebuild them, automatics are expensive, besides if your clutch goes out you can limo it home, if an auto goes out, your walking, but usually they start slipping first..
I tend to write in run-on sentences...

I prefer to have enough power to stay out of granny on an hill.

I've never had an automatic strand me. They have always given enough warning of impending failure that they have been fixed first.

I have been stranded by failed manuals. I blew up a Muncie 4-speed years ago in a hot rod Firebird. I broke the counter shaft and would not move any more except in 4th.

I blew up a 5-speed something in an International truck bad enough that almost everything inside needed to be replaced. We bought a new transmission instead because it was slightly cheaper and saved the labor of reassembly.

I don't think you can take those two experiences of mine and extrapolate that manuals are less reliable, but I think many commercial truck operators have shifted in the automatic direction precisely because in fleet use the automatic is less likely to strand a truck.

Since its been fully 28 years since I worked as a truck mechanic I'm out of touch with the changes in that business and I'm sure others with more recent experience might have better information.

Everybody has their own preference, and nothing anybody could say would change what most of us believe.
We like something because of experience, we are afraid to try other things and prefer what we have already worked with.

I agree.
I've been up some hills on the interstate in first and 2nd gear (of 6, so really 2nd and 3rd) it's no fun.
Either less load or more power is the real answer, probably in that order.
I've also been down the other side of those hills in LOW (of 6) still on the interstate, and I'll tell you that really is no fun, 15 mph with traffic passing at 65, Wow! did I mention it was no fun? Any higher gear and I was on the brakes constantly, so not much to do but go slower and use them occasionally.

Was I glad to have a manual, yes, but saying a manual is better because you can use low on a long hill with a load (as in interstate I take it?) is somewhat silly and misguided. Might be an option, but not a real good one or one to be proud of.

Grigg

Forcing the truck to move slow going down hill may be one of the most compelling arguments I've seen for a manual trans.

Though I think your suggestion (regarding going up in granny) of less load being the right answer is probably an even more appropriate solution when headed back down.

If you have to go that slow you're almost certainly overloaded.

True, don't have a weight for that trip, but it was close if not already overloaded.
The most memorable and miserable part was on I-64 in WV on Sandstone Mountain headed home.
"It has some extremely rugged terrain, with one segment boasting a 7% grade downhill eastbound for seven miles (11 km) at Sandstone Mountain"

Grigg

I've been there and done that. I sure hope I've finally learned better!

A Manual will pull a huge load up a hill twice as long as an automatic will, get too much weight in your truck and pulling a steep enough hill, and you could probably burn up an auto as well as a Manual.
When I think of an Automatic transmission, for some reason, I think of a economy car...
When I think of Manuals, I think of trucks, and bigger vehicles.
(Although you can have either transmission in either vehicle)
Another thing about Manuals, is you can downshift and save wear and tear on your brakes.
Besides if your pulling a long hill with an automatic it's going to keep shifting up and down and get hot, pretty soon you will be walking...
This won't happen with a Manual.
Let's simplify this, Manuals are for work trucks, Automatics for economy cars and small trucks.

Not trying to argue, but do you have any sources with reliable info to back up you assumptions?
Or is this all from your own personal experience with both transmission types?
Or are you passing on rumors and other peoples opinions?

I like manual transmissions myself, but I think your reasons for exclusively liking manuals are BS when considering modern automatics.

If you like a manual that's fine, but plese just leave it at that, your own personal preference. Keep and open mind and don't fabricate or perpetuate half truths to support your view.

Grigg

Grigg,

I think he's mostly referring to regular automatics and not the Allisons or the like.

When automatics started becoming very popular in 1/2 tons and 3/4 ton trucks many would burn up early on. But even in today's light duty trucks, I'm still seeing ads like I have mentioned earlier (with trucks having autos): "New trans", Trans 10,000 miles old", "Recent new trans", "Runs good, but needs trans". I look at about 50 Chevy trucks a week for sale online and in newspapers, trading papers, etc and close to half have those words listed. ....and that's the ones that are mentioning it. It could be over 50% on trucks over 100,000 miles old and/or 15 years old. Everytime I read an ad lately with one of those statements, I think of this thread.

Which reminds me. Someone earlier mentioned how fleets should run automatics in their trucks. Back in the early to mid 70's I worked for a small company that had a fleet of about 50 or 60 trucks. We had everything from 3-Speed on the column to Quadraplex transmissions and just about everything in between. I was friends with the mechanic and spend some good time at the garage. I never remember one manual transmission failure. A few clutches, maybe a U-Joint once in a while, but never a trans.

They were mostly GMC's and a few IH's. All in all the fleet ran pretty smooth.

Bill

during the close of the atca show in macungie last year my tranny went out on my then 96 2500 hd dodge with a automatic hd tranny. i bought the truck new in 96 with eight miles on it which included my test drive during a break in a noreaster snow storm. i know what i hauled in the truck which at times loads exceeded a ton(coal). the truck had 210,000 miles on it when it went out. the 360 took a quart of oil between changes and didnt smoke or leak. id bet donuts to dollars if it was a stick id still own that truck. i live where there are lots of mountains to go over and grew up in the coal region of eastern pa. i cant remember a manual tranny ever going out unless it was seriously abused while haul a load of coal. like bill said "clutches were a common thing to replace" because the operators didnt use proper gear selections while pulling out loaded and smoked them. i have people today saying to me that i dont need to use first gear to pull out. depending on what truck im driving i can pull out in hi range or second low range on the ashton its first low everytime. when i was first learning to drive a firetruck 30yrs ago the captain of the truck said first gear is there for a reason use it.! he was also the boro mechanic which he did all the maintenance on all the trucks from all four stations. one company he replaced the clutch three times and that was a 69 hahn. we had a 66 and its still running(privately owned) and on the same clutch. ive seen certain gears go out but the tranny still worked.

Bill if you go back and read all the posts from our F350 friend you'll discover he is a teen who may not even be old enough to have a license yet. Calling him on his statements is not inappropriate.

Since most new trucks have been automatic equipped for the last twenty or thirty years, that the majority of those with transmissions that have been replaced or repaired would simply be consistent with production proportions.

My own driving experience (40+ years now) does include some manual transmission failures which I mentioned earlier in this thread. They do fail and I have experienced it. I've personally never lost an automatic while driving, but I do have one in a pickup that I know if going to die.

That pickup has more than 190,000 miles on the odometer and while I'd rather not be replacing a transmission anytime soon, I recognize that mechanical devices have wear parts and a service life and I may see the end of that transmission if I don't replace it first. But I've known for a year that it was showing the signs of age and if it strands me it will be my fault not the automatic transmission.

This thread was about what you have in your 1-ton and why. It was not intended to be a debate over which is best, though the why question was sure to draw out preferences.

We've learned that some of us have strongly held preferences and may never be swayed.

Steve,

I'm not saying it was. I think you are taking it too seriously.

Just to add a little extra tho, it's kind of funny as when I was a teen, I had the same opinion that I do now, lol.

But like Grigg said, ...not to argue about it.

Bill

When I was a teen I shared the opinion you have now...

Its not the only thing that has changed about me over more years than I want to think about. I wish I could claim all the changes have been improvements!

History Lesson:

Real trucks have manuals?

What about GMC trucks - they have had Hydra-Matic transmissions since 1953? And, military trucks had GM Hydra-Matic transmission before that?

Some Hydra-Matic transmissions had a low-gear selection (range 1-2).

Several types of interesting Hydra-Matics were available on large mid-1950s GMC trucks - one being a 21 forward-gear Hydra-Matic that was basically two-four-speed Hydra-Matics over/under an output shaft that could also be connected to a 2-speed or 3-speed converter/reducer. I bet this BIG truck found it easy to either go up or go down pretty good-sized and steep hills (in pre-Interstate Highway years)?

When I think about manual transmissions, I think about most of the cars and trucks I have owned since the 1960s. But, I find it hard to understand why real trucks should not have automatic transmission.

I think it's just an opinion,
Because the opposite is certainly true as well.
For example take a look at these two Heavy Haul trucks that recently moved a 120 ton transformer just around the corner form me. Both had automatics, and by any definition you choose they are without a doubt "real trucks". Here's a picture for scale http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2988772320080251109wFbwXB

And to further support that "real trucks" can have an automatic take a peek at what Allison has to offer for commercial trucks.

Grigg

Just to add a little extra, as much as I never like an automatic in any truck, especially a Heavy truck, automatics in large vehicles is nothing new. GMC made city buses back in the 40's with 2-Speed auto transmissions. Some of you may know them as what are called the "Old Look" buses (Jacki Gleason style).

They were 6-71 Detroit powered and would haul a full load of people uphill to boot. They were a little slow moving but would get the job done. As far as I know, they held up. I always wondered what years they were as they all looked the same for many years and I got to check out the registration on one once. It was a 1945.

Bill

I found a couple of those buses converted to motorhomes a few years back near my brother's in Oregon. Neither ran and one of them had a different motor.

If I remember correctly one of them was late 40's and the other maybe early 60's? I believe the price was free provided you remove both of them from the guy's property.

I don't know if they are still there or not and I didn't notice that they had automatic transmissions. Wasn't really interested and didn't look very hard.

GMC started offering the Hydra-Matic about 1952 in delivery trucks (PM series) and '53 in pickups. By '54 it was available in 350 series (2-ton) trucks and larger.

Have I mentioned that I own a '54 Hydra-Matic 1-ton GMC?

the 'old look' model GM bus [actually Yellow Coach] started in 1940 and went to '69 - the trannies weren't hydramatics, but Spicers and Allisons

Bill

Is your 1-ton a manual or automatic?


Mine is a manual. I have not driven it much with the 51 cab but I drove it alot as a 78. We used to haul livestock from the local sale barns around Tennessee, Alabama and Kentucky and the only trouble we ever had was we lost third gear a couple of times. Keep in mind we were pulling a 36 foot stock trailer and who knows how many times the odometer had rolled over. There was usually a run every night during the week for atleast 10 or 12 years.

My 1 ton panel is a 4 spd. I think with the original 216, an auto would rob too much power. Besides, I have to admit, I think a stick is more fun at times.

One argument for an autonmatic could be made by anyone in a metropolitan area where you may spend cosiderable time inching along in heavy traffic.

Been there done that.

After carefully planning my trip to avoid metro areas during peak traffic I passed through Salt Lake just after a big accident on the freeway. I don't know Salt Lake and didn't want to bail off the freeway with a 22 foot long pickup and 24 foot long trailer to wander around trying to get past the traffic jam. Fortunately that truck was an automatic and the air conditioning worked fine.