The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop my 235 chevy in my '55 won't run:-(

Well, its time to start up the 'ol chevy this year again. It never ran right last year so this year i'm gonna give it all my might. Its a 235 and i've replaced points/rotor/cap/wires/plugs/condenser in distributor, rebuilt carburetor, checked timing, fuel pump, gas tank, sending unit, adjusted valves (solid), new intake/exhaust gasket, etc. etc. but it still won't run! I'm fresh out of ideas. It turns over fine and it sputters but it doesn't take off. It looks like i'm gettin spark but not sure if its strong enough? I have a feeling its probably the original coil/condenser....could that be part of the problem? If anyone has anymore info, that'd be great! Thanks.

Chuddy,

You say it didn't run right last year......What was it doing or not doing? When did you replace all of the things you listed? This year or last when it wasn't running right? Am assuming your getting gas....?! (I know it sounds redundant) but, have you double checked the firing order on your plug wires? do you have a fuel filter on it? How old is the gas in the tank? Take it one system at a time. you'll find it. Did you adjust the valves with the engine cold or at operating temp?

Hi, i adjusted the valves at operating temperature....I'm pretty sure those are right because it ran alright last year for awhile but then it kept idling worse and worse and finally this year it wont start. its gettin gas for sure. Someone suggested the coil....could that be whats causing it? all my wires are right, i just checked those earlier tonight. When i pulled number 1 plug wire off and cranked the engine over, the spark was yellow.....didn't seem too powerful...maybe that has somethin to do with it? I think i might have a coil lyin around somewhere i could toss on. Keep those ideas coming! Thanks guys.

Check your compression just in case the rocker arms are to tight. Does it sputter through the carb? Make sure your rotor isn't 180 degrees out ... try it, I did a similar thing last year.

Put a new set of regular old AC plugs in. You might want to try a little hotter plug (one number up).
Adios, Kip

Hi guys, well, i just got in from installing the new coil/condenser. Still no luck. Its really starting to get discouraging. To be honest, I have no clue where to go from here. When i put the car away for the winter i got the non-oxygenated gas so it wouldn't gum up, so i think the gas should be ok. Plus, i tried pourin a little gas down the carb and it still wouldn't start. its got spark, its got fuel, I haven't done a compression test but when i was looking for TDC i put my finger over the spark plug hole and there was compression! I just dont understand, some people can take their car out of 10 year storage and it'll fire right up and run well! I've replaced everything and it doesn't even run.....any other ideas out there? I'm planning on building a 261 for it but I'd like to get it on the road for awhile first so I can enjoy it! Thanks.

PS....Is there a picture of the spark plug wire orientation around the cap or anything in the shop manual? I couldn't find one....Is #1 towards the front/passenger side of the cap? If that makes sense?

Chad

It takes four things for an engine to run:

• a source of good ignition
• a source of good fuel
• a source of oxygen
• sufficient compression

When you're troubleshooting a problem, work on one system at a time. Otherwise you will get yourself very confused and end up spending more money than you needed to. Notice that I qualified the first two items on the list with the word "good". Fuel and ignition aren't enough if they're just there. They have to be good enough to create fire. When you put fuel in the carb, don't use gas, use something more volatile. Carb cleaner works well. Or ether. You can spray a little in the mouth of the carb, and if there's any ignition and compression at all, it should fire up. Then you can tell if it's backfiring or running really rough. Once you get it started, keep shooting a light squirt of carb cleaner every second or two in the mouth of the carb to keep it running so you can continue to diagnose the problem.
You stated that the engine ran fine last year and then gradually got worse. Have you checked the air cleaner? If it's dirty enough, it can keep an engine from running. If that's the case, pulling the wiper vacuum line (to allow more air in) should make it start. That would be a clear sign that the engine isn't getting enough air.

If you suspect a vacuum leak, spray carb spray on the rubber vacuum lines. If it has a leak, the engine will accelerate when the carb spray hits the hole in the rubber hose (or in your case, it may start finally.) A bad vacuum hose would produce the exact symptoms that you describe (gradually deteriorating idle.) Pull the hose, block the vacuum port and crank it. If it starts fine then, that's the problem. Replace the vacuum hose.

Pull a plug, touch its base to ground somewhere (engine block, etc.) and crank it. Does the spark snap? Or just kind of click? Pull the distributor cap and see if the rotor is turning when you crank the engine.

These are just a few ideas, but the point is, work on one system until you're sure it's right. Once you've eliminated it, strike it off your list and start on the second system. If you go through all four, and you still haven't found the problem, then you've missed something in one of the four. Start over, and work each system until you're sure it's right.

"kept idling worse and worse and finally this year it wont start."
Ok for sure you need gas and spark. Remove the gas line to the carb and into a jar bump the starter a few times. Gas in the jar? Remove a plug smell like gas/wet with gas? Check the spark anyway you want at the plugs air gap or plug wire to ground. I've had semi new plugs cause a problem before. Sometimes new parts can be defective. Make sure the plug wires are good and wired right. If you got gas on the plugs I'm hoping your carb rebuild is good. Didn't block the little holes from thottle body to heat block did you? Just want to get this engine going then you can look for leaks and set the timing and check compression. I've seen these old engines start with low compression, all sorts of leaks and out of time even plug wires wrong (didn't run right but STARTED) as long as there was gas and a good spark! I would still like you to try another New set of NEW AC plugs. Let us know what you come up with. Adios, Kip

I would like to tell you a little story about an experience I had a long while back. I did a tune up on a 57 Pontiac and the coil checker indicated the coil was weak so I put on a new coil. I finished the tune up and the car ran fine. The next morning the owner said the car wouldn't run. I went and checked it and he was right, the thing would not back out of the garage. To make a long story short, I worked for 2 days on it. The coil kept indicating it was bad so I would put on a new coil and still the same thing. I installed 3 new coils with the same results. I ended up going to another parts store and buying an other brand coil, put it on and it ran fine. My advice to you is find a coil and condenser that is working on another another vehicle, put them on yours and see if it runs.

Chuddy 117, I just went through the same thing with my IR 125 compressor, new wires, thought coil was bad, (faulty ignition switch), good spark, gas to the carb. still wouldn't start, checked for stuck valves (happened before, ok this time) pulled carb apart, full of crud, rebuilt carb. still no start. drained gas tank removed and cleaned out, put new gas in and success, started right up. Combination of dirty carb & bad gas. Good luck.

Chuddy, What have you got the points set on?

Your questions about the plugs.....my manual shows the firing order to be #1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4; however, I can't find a photo either. Sorry.

Have you checked for a vapor lock in the gas line?
Also, when or have you had the gas tank cleaned & coated last?

I'm restoring a 55 Chevy 235 3100 1st series myself.

55chevypapa
:rolleyes:

Hey, thanks a lot for the answers, guys. I am going to check compression tomorrow. I will also check the point gap. I took a plug off and held it next to the head and there was spark. The car has electric wipers so no vacuum hose to deal with! What ports are you refering to in the carburetor? Maybe i am blocking them? Thanks.

Chad

Oh, it has a brand new gas tank and a new sending unit, new filters, new pump, etc. I took off the hose and got a jar....its pumpin gas just fine.

You Got a 1 barrel Rochester? You got the heat block between thottle body and intake manifold?
If you got the Roch 1 barrel turn it upside down and you will see a little hole that has to be open to the intake the heat block and gaskets are notched for it. But really your engine should start even if it's block just won't run good.
It has been my experiance that Team Racecarl is pretty right on with their ideas. Remember NEW parts and parts still under warrenty can be
bad. "points/rotor/cap/wires/plugs/condenser in distributor" any one of those could be bad!!!!!
Talk to you parts people tell them that you THINK
the parts they sold you are bad. I do it. I have 5 vehicles and they don't want to loose my business. This doesn't happen all the time BUT IT DOES HAPPEN!!! Let us know.
Good Luck and Adios, Kip

OH! BTW if you go to get new plugs you know which ones I want you to get. Fancy plugs are for fancy engines. One more thing do the plugs you got in there right now got gas on them after cracking it for a while?
Adios, Kip

Well, I'm doing this kind of fast, so i hope it works out. Use this diagram to set your dis. cap and wires. 235 ignition
Just click on the pic of 235 ignition it should get bigger for you to see. If it doesn't work for you to see, let me know and I will e-mail you a pic. I do think your 235 isn't timed right on the cap.

P.S.
Incase- The firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4, clockwise from #1.

IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!! I finally got it runnin today. I checked the compression, not one cylinder was under 150 psi.....unreal for a car that hasn't been driven over 500 miles in 30 years. I checked everything over and did some tuning and got some new plugs, even though they are only a couple months old. Wouldn't you know, it fired right up. I think it was a combination of a bunch of little things because many things were a bit off specs. Thanks a lot for the info guys....now if i can just get rid of that hesitation on acceleration......

Chad

"....now if i can just get rid of that hesitation on acceleration......"

Ok,
Check for sucking air around the carb, carb to manifold. That little hole clear? You got Roch B? That spring loaded adjusting screw 1.5 to 2 turns open? You buy one up hotter A/Cs (I think 46)? The timing mark holding fairly steady? You run premium gas? You might want to check your valves again now that it's running half way decent.
And now for the Kicker (some of the guys around here hate these things but they work for me). MSD6A $150.00+tax. If you decide to get one order the optional plastic ears that bolt to the distributer they make thing easier.
Adios, Kip

Hi Kip, I checked on the hotter plugs but Napa only had the R45's in stock so thats what i went with. It idles really smooth but when i spray carb cleaner around the base of the carb, its starts running rough so I think I have a vacuum leak there somewhere. I found some extra gaskets today I'm gonna throw on. I know the valves are set. Now, I see that hole your talking about in the bottom of the carb base, and the gasket does have the same hole, but my insulator block doesn't have the hole and neither does my manifold. Well, i'm off to change the gaskets, maybe it'll help. Thanks!

Chad

Ok,
There will be no accomadation for the hole on the intake but the insulator block should be Notched much like some of the extra gaskets in most carb kits but you only need one notch for that hole. It has to be open to the intake. Look at that insulator block good both sides.
Now,
Thottle body to bowl on carb-No leaks.
Thottle body to heat insulator-No leaks.
Heat insulator to intake-No leaks.
When I go to put carb and insulator on when I'm sure bowl and throttle body are good. I use black or orange gasket sealer with the right gasket when called for and I do not block that hole and Notch. Put it all on and torque to about 8 or 10.
hook up a tach, start motor and start torqueing
till the idle and tack even out. Tach almost even (not "burbing" like 600-750) almost even 600-625 once in a while. The torque will be around 20 ft/lbs. I do it this way because You don't want to put it too tight because you'll bust the heat block. If you get it under 20 that's nice I like to use those nuts with the built in plastic locking or use a little lock tight. Remember premium gas. My spelling is bad but my vehicles run good. And I'm no mechanic but I've learned a few things from this place and it's advertizers tech asistance, Patrick's, Jim Carters and Langdons (good people but they do get tired of all my questions at times). I wont mention the ones that have been NO Help (maybe in another post)!
Adios, Kip

Hey Kip, thanks for info. I see the notches you are talking about, but didn't think the hole lined up with 'em. Well, it idles really well and starts really well. But when i go from idle to wide open throttle, it stumbles and sputters through the carb. Sounds like timing, but I checked the timing and got it spot on. So i'm not real sure where to go next! When I hit the gas, the vacuum advance turns the distributor so i'm assuming thats working. If I slowly give it gas it doesn't do it, just when I snap it. What do ya guys think? Thanks.
Chad

It's the accelerator pump in the carb. that is causing your problems. It either is not put together correct or is out of adjustment.

Remember what I said about Team RaceCarl? Check that leather spring loaded thing that it's seated and moveing freely up and down. Gosh another carb kit. BTW the notch and hole will line up why do you think it's there?
Adios Amigo, Kip

Hey guys, I did take the top off the carb and pushed the accel pump down, but it seemed like the spring wasn't strong enough to bring it back to its regular position? Would a little oil help or something? Also, I notice that where the top half of the carb and the bottom half of the carb join together, theres a little gas seepage there. Is that normal, or....? I put fresh gaskets in it with a little gasket sealer....

Thanks
Chad

Every Roch B I'VE seen gets wet up there (to some degree). I've rebuilt about 10 of them some of them had different tops. You can try the oil. I wouldn't try the gasket sealer too much fine stuff going on around there. That leather plugger needs to be primed with oil or gas during the rebuild, that may be where your headed again eventuailly. Always keep your eyes open for spare parts. Haveing an extra fresh carb ready to go is always a nice thing. I once got one for four Jimmy Hendrix albums in trade, don't worry I had taped them (twice).
Adios, Kip

Hey Kip, actually, I've rebuilt 2 carburetors so far, this is the second one i've tried. I bead blaste 'em and got them really clean. I shouldn't have said gasket sealer, I should have said that I used gasket dressing, sorry about that. Big difference! I dont think i'd use gasket sealer on a carb. But I did oil the plunger before I installed it, so I'm not sure now? When i hit the gas with the car off, there is a stream of gas shot into the carb....i'm stumped!

Chad

You got an extra carb? If so switch em. I know I know back and forth on and off I'm going through it with a generator right now-we all do. I have some other ideas, but 1st if you got another carb that will eleminate alot of possiblities.
Adios Hermano, Kip

Your hesitation may be caused by faulty or sticky springs in the distributor or a bad vacuum advance (can bad, line clogged, etc.), too. Have you checked those?

4onthefloor....you beat me to it! I went out tonight and tried suckin on the end of the vacuum advance, didn't turn the distributor. Then i turned the distributor and tried suckin on the end of the line to hold it, it didn't hold. So i'm thinkin its got a tear in it. Its 50 years old, I can definitely see the diaphragm bein torn! So, its off to the parts store. Oh, I have to remove the distributor to replace it, dont I? Thanks guys.

Chad