The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Painting SNAFU- How do I fix it?

The fact that I am not a painter seems to get confirmed every time I try. I have learned to overcome major problems with dry paint, orange peel, and I am doing much better with runs. I thought I was ready to try doing some of the interior parts.

I am using PPG 27467 Shopline single stage paint for my 52. In doing research I understand it is recommended that all parts be painted at the same time when using metallic paint and you should apply even coats. The doing the parts all at the same time will not work for me and I will deal with that when I have to. Applying even coats is where I think I fouled up. The paint I am using seems to have a very high metallic content and appears darker than I expected. I think I might be applying to much paint. I got darker "smokey" areas and trying to apply more paint over these and the adjacent areas just made everything look a little darker but the smokey areas are still there. I am using the paint as a gloss paint. A flattener may have made the effect less noticeable. I decided against the flattener or using a basecoat without clear based on conversations with the paint store.

The effect is actually pretty cool if that is what you were trying to get. Unfortunately it was not what I was trying to do. I have no clue how to fix this and I am not sure I can prevent it in the future. This morning I painted the backside of the parts being as careful as possible and still got some (but less) darker areas. If I want to try and fix this does the paint need to be completely sanded off or does just wet sanding it start me with a fresh slate? Other options? I haven't ruled out leaving the rest to a professional but I would like to do the interior myself if possible.

Chuck

The old saying practice, practice really applys when painting. Metallic colors are hard to get uniform coverage, and the higher the metallic the harder it is. The condition your refering to is called metallic sag/shadow. Now is the time to "buddy" up with a painter, maybe he will teach/help you out. All rules of painting need to followed to the letter. The "mix" "spray" "pressure" "stroke" "equipment". A cheap paint gun will not get the job done and an expensive one won't make a painter out of you. See the tech tips and practice on some old parts. Painting is a learned "skill". You might want to reconsider using "clear" coat, but then you have to deal with catalyst/hardners and the environment. Theres not enough space here to cover all, just do your homework, seek advise, ask for help and be safe!

What you're learning Chuck is that anyone can pick up a paint gun and shoot paint. An "experienced" painter knows how to avoid and/or fix issues when they arise. One way to hide metallic imperfections is to back the gun out a few inches and "fog" a coat over the painted surface while the paint is still wet. That will even out the surface metallic. As Yakima says, practice (a lot of practice) makes perfect. FYI, another reason to paint all of the parts at the same time is the color of a high metallic paint can be changed just by the amount of thinner used. If you don't do everything exactly the same way each time (when parts are painted at different times) it's easy to get mismatched color.

Fogging as Tiny states will help along with a lot of practice. Try to paint all parts at once. With metallics I like to a few marbles in the gun to keep the flakes agitated. Have fun and good luck
Dan

You need to fine tune your stroke. Start before the area your painting and shut the gun off after you pass the area you are painting. Smooth and even passes with the gun using the same speed with each pass, making your overlap the same also.
Like they said, metallics are not forgiving.
Lite colored areas represent less paint,or dryer spray,darker areas are more paint or shot wetter.
When metallics are shot dry the metal stays up, if shot wet the metal will sink exposing more color, hence the light/dark results.

I know it's sometimes hard to determine how the paint is laying out, so make sure you have good lighting so you can see how the paint is going on. Position your lights so reflected light allows you see the surface.
Keep the angle of your gun the same. You can lay paint on a flat surface easier than a vertical surface, meaning you can put more paint on a flat surface and get away with it, doing the same to a vertical surface may render some runs or curtains in the result.
Practice, very few people are born with the talent to paint.
Dan

Thanks for all the info guys. I better understand where I went wrong and appreciate the hints for future improvements. I fully appreciate the practice advice. I painted my first truck 46 years ago. It was such a disaster I didn't try that again for a couple of decades. Over the years I have done some painting and have seen a lot of improvement but do not have any aspirations to be a painter. I want to do as much work on this truck myself as I can but I am only doing the painting for economic reasons. The economic downturn has dramatically affected my income and there just isn't much money to spend on the truck right now. That also makes buying metallic paint to practice with difficult. My only previous experience with metallic paint is with aluminum and that always sorted itself out just fine. Maybe that is not really metallic paint?

I still want to try and fix my mistakes before I decide to try any additional pieces. No one has indicated the best way to do this. I think it will involve sanding but I do not know how much I need to sand so that the existing mistakes do not show through.

Chuck

If the paint isn't a candy color a simple scuff & recoat should cover the current sins. Be sure to follow the manufacturer's instructions for cure time between coats.

We are all making the assumption that the "smokey" areas you refer to are the result of inconsistent metallic coverage. Painting when it's too humid can result in "blushing" where the paint skims over before the volatiles can escape. Posting a good pic of the affected area can aid the diagnosis.

Thanks Tiny. Glad to hear I don't have to remove all the paint. The smokey description I used probably isn't very accurate. The sag/shadow YakimaBowtie described seems to be what I am dealing with. I could immediately see the darker color on some passes I made. I tried to blend it in and it just made everything a little darker. I googled metallic sag/shadow and this thread is the only helpful thing that turned up. I do now know more about the Screen Actors Guild and eye shadow than I ever wanted to know.

Chuck

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

Hi Chuck. I used the same paint you did - and probably bought it from the same store. My paint turned out okay, but not a professional job by any means. If you painted recently, maybe your paint or metal was too cold. When I tried to paint at or below 60F, the results were similar to what you described, and I had lots of trouble. When the temperature of the paint and metal was between 70F and 90F, the results were much better. I also had plenty of trouble painting when the temperature exceeded 95F. If you are around this weekend, maybe we should get together and talk trucks. I will send you a PM.

That's a good point he brings up about the temp. I never try to paint if it's below 70. I know it's possible but the ball game changes from what I'm used to and only adds another element of difficulty. I also don't paint when it is really humid.
There's no problem in re-shooting it, just scuff it down for smoothness and shoot it again. This time you won't be trying so hard to get paint coverage, you already have that. You're shooting the last coat, just enough paint to make it look good.
Dan

These last 2 guy are right on. I was a painter a custom shop for years that used the PPG DAU and DBC paint system. Temperature is a huge factor in spraying metallics. You need to make sure you are using the right temp reducers and hardeners for starters. Secondly, make sure you have enough flash time inbetween coats - haste makes waste when it comes to painting. If you don't have enough flash time inbetween coats you will end up with the "modeling" effect you described earlier. Its basically the metallics in the paint running together (the dark spots). Overall, spraying with single stage metallics is difficult and is hard to get a nice finished product unless your familiar with them. In fact, we rarely used them in the shop because they are so unforgiving - if you make a mistake you can't wetsand and buff it out. Your best bet for a quality finish would be to use a basecoat/clearcoat system and add flattening agent to it, if you are looking for a semi-gloss appearence. However, take your time, add some distance from your spray gun to the metal and make sure you have enough flash time inbetween coats and it should turn out just fine.

Jeff

I agree with Body guy. another couple of tricks I learned is to put a couple of super clean marbles, ball bearings or nuts in the gun and shake it to keep the poly stirred up. Also although I don't advocate this I have been known to "warm" the paint to 75-80 degrees to enhance the gloss.