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I am building a photo album/gallery with related photos and information about the Barton American UA-50 front mount pump. As I posted earlier I was able to purchase a spare Barton American UA-50 pump which was mounted on a 1957 Dodge. The previous owner had purchased the 57 Dodge for the cab and did not want the pump. I was also able to purchase all of the related American Fire Apparatus engine and cooling system components which had been a part of the total instalation of the UA-50 on the 57 Dodge. My plans are to disassemble and rebuild the pump and each of the components and create photo documentation along the way.

Thus far I have uploaded photos of the pump and components as mounted on the 57 Dodge fire truck:

Barton American UA-50 Pump Gallery


Bob

Bob,

This is great stuff!!! My U-40 from my '41 Chevy is currently disassembled and in primer. Just ordered 5 new bearings for it (4 different bearings, two of one), as well as a rebuilt tachometer gear.

Though I assume my truck had the aux. cooler when built, it has been lost on the way. If you know of one available, please advise. Otherwise, I may ask for your help in fabricating one (I don't think they're all that complicated).

My truck (apparently) had no pump governor either, though it originally had the chevy top-speed governor.

Learned a lot about the pump when we tore it appart. Took many photos, but mostly with my iphone, which does not take great pix. Am assembling a rebuild diary like you. Not too far along, but let me know if I can help.

I've got a lead on a batch of Barton pumps (already have two spares) from a fellow, just need to "seal the deal".

We're gonna rebuild the primer, as well. They're my absolute favorite! An oil-less primer, orginally developed in the '20s. American was "Green" before Green was cool!!! It's such an elegant solution.

Keep us posted!!! Your truck is awesome.

-Michael

Thanks Michael,

The internet is really an amazing source of information. In most cases somebody has seen it or done it related to almost any subject you can imagine.

I am always searching the net for information about projects I am working on and as a result realize that in return it is important to post information that may then be of use to someone else.

The hardest part of providing information is to find a spot on the net which allows the information to have a long life.

Bob

Added some additonal UA-50 related photos of:

Pump carb governor
Pump drive shaft
Drive shaft motor connection block
Pump heat exchanger box
Governor stainer/filter

Barton American UA-50 photos (governor, stainer, drive shaft, heat exchanger)


Bob

The weather was finally a little warmer recently so I finally go into the barn to finish taking some additional pictures of the UA-50 pump and components before I start the tear down.

I added photos for the vacuum primer, pump frame mount, and the pump itself:

Barton American UA-50 Photos


Bob

Bob -- Welcome to Stovebolt.com! We've been here since 1995 and have no intentions of going anywhere anytime soon We'd be happy to host your photo diary here as an on-going feature or tech article.

Regards,
John

My truck has a similar front mounted pump...

A Barton American U-50 pump....

Is it the same?

I don't have a governor or heat exchanger...

I do have the vacuum primer though...

Hi 1958GMCnut

My truck has a Barton UA-50 which is very similar to your U-50. The pumps models designated with UA (instead of U) denote a pump with the heating/cooling jacket cast around the pump. This heating/cooling jacket is plumbed into the engine cooling system to help keep the pump from freezing during cold weather.

Bob

Great info!

Thanks

I hope to add more photos and info now that nicer weather has returned. My goal is still to tear down and rebuild the spare UA-50 pump I have and to photo document that process. Probably take me more than a few months as many projects again compete for the nicer weather.

Also it took me a while but I found the portable American Pump that belongs in the rear bin of my fire truck. I will take some photos and post them when I get a chance over the next few weeks.

Whoa!!!

Did you say portable "American Pump"?!

I've been lookin' fer one o' them for years!!! How'd you find one? Is it the one in their brochures? (Can't remember the model # right now . . . ).

VERY cool. Can't wait to see it. And pass along your secret for finding one . . . I'm certainly not seeing them around!

-Michael

Mike,

It was another nice day so I got a chance to take some pics of the portable pump.

The pump is an American Fire Pump Co. - Model 3XD (the pictures also have a view of an American add showing the pump).

I found the pump in TN by watching craigslist.

Here is a link to some photos. These photos show the pump in the condition it was purchased. Since I like original condition I am only planning to give the pump a good cleaning.

American Fire Pump Co Portable Pump 3XD

Bob

I contacted the Manufacturer and got 20 pages of info on the u-50/
u-60/ u-75 series pumps, parts sheets, maintainance instructions and blown up diagrams....If any one need info I can copy and mail...

Dave

On the carb governor.. Where do the 2 lines attach to on the pump??

38FF
Here is a diagram I had created showing how American Fire Apparatus had done the engine bay piping/connections for the front mount Barton on my truck:

Barton Front Pump Engine Bay Piping Diagram

I also have a lot of pictures of the actual connections here:

'54 GMC 450 Barton Front Pump Album

I just picked up a 42 dodge wd-15 with a barton fire pump U40 on it..i dont know much about this pump..all i know that it is early can someone give me some info on it...thanks for any kind of info!


Chris D.

Chris,
Your pump should be a 400 gpm non-jacketed pump.

do you know what it is worth?

I have purchased a few unrestored/used working Barton front mount pumps for $50-$75.

I added some detailed photos and descriptions showing how the pump priming system works on the American 3XD portable pump:

American Pump portable 3XD priming system

I am looking for a Barton American UA-50 - preferably restored - but used and working would be find; does anyone have one for sale or know where I can find one?

All,

Just a FYI. If anyone is part of the Antique Automobile Club Of America http://www.aaca.org/ or SPAAMFAA, http://www.spaamfaa.org/ , their library has a ton of info on the Barton UA-50 pump. I am a member, and got the following info for $25 (cost of photocopying and mailing.
It's a great resource thats probably not as used as much as it should be. If your not a member, you should be, as it's well worth the membership price for the information they can provide.




Bulletin 8330-A - 4 color pages
Bulletin 8330-C - 6 color pages
Bulletin 8330-C, 2nd ed. - 6 color pages
Bulletin 8330-C, 3rd ed. - 2 pages
Bulletin 75, No. 2, U-35, U-40 and U-50 - 6 color pages
UA 50-60 Repair Parts Sheet - 1 page
Barton-American UA-50 sheet - 1 color page
Barton-American Type-UA - 4 color pages
Bulletin 75-S-1, No.1, Instructions for Mounting and Operating U-35, U-40, U-50 and U-60 - 4 pages
Instruction Manual for Mounting, Operating and Maintaining the
Barton-American Front Mounted Centrifugal Fire Pump - 28 pages

Kenny,

I might have one I'm willing to part with. Give me details on your application? Is this a replacement? How do you know that's what you want?

It would be used, not restored.

-Michael

I just found an interesting fact about the Barton UA pumps. In the first "instruction manual", Edition #1, Bulletin 75-S-1, it says that
"Should the starter fail, the special cranking device funished with the pump (inserted in the the Pump Suction with the pump clutch in the engaged position) makes cranking of the engine through the pump just as easy and as effective as it would be had the pump not been installed"

Anyone ever seen one of these devices?

I assume that my pump is a later one, as it has a metal mesh screen that appears to be soldered in to the pump intake that is not removable, making using such device impossible with out removing it. I can see in the pump, and in the center of the impeller is a nut, which if you had a socket and long extension, you could probably crank the motor with the clutch engaged.

it is interesting that this fact is NOT mentioned in later versions of the manual.

Actually, one of the members of the Stovebolt Volunteer Fire Department bought a truck with a Barton Front-mount, and included was the device you describe. Basically, it looked like a right-angle lug wrench with a collar on it. The coller fit inside the pump suction, the wrench went around the square impeller nut, and, with the pump engaged, you cranked it like staring an old car by hand. Can't remember if it was somehow geared one way or the other.

The screen you're talking about is only "soldered" into the pump by dirt and corrosion. With some judicious use of a mallet and screw driver, or a pick, you should be able to remove it.

I agree that it doesn't get mentioned later, seems like everyone agreed that it was better to be sure the electric starter circuit was in good condition, than trying to start one of these by hand!

Of course, maybe if they just built the firehouse on a hill, with the floor tilted out, they could just pop the clutch . . .

-Michael

Mike,

You were right. 10 minutes with a pick, and it popped out. I cleaned it up, and it's as it is supposed to be. Does anyone know of a replacement source for the screens?

Also, the ratio thats on the pump dataplate... Mine is 1.82 to 1 Does that mean for every 1.8 engine revolution the pump turns 1 times, or the opposite?

I have seen UA40 pumps on jeeps that were 1.60 to 1. I've seen on larger trucks, the 2.28 to 1 ratio. Im just trying to figure it all out.

38FF and Kenny

I saw an email notification that you posted on this thread but I don't see anything new on the thread. I think th board may still be having issues from the outage yesterday. Repost you questions if you can. - Bob

I had a few posts, but to sum it up.

Changing ratios wont work for me, I dont have the torque to power the 2.28:1 ratio gears.

Also, I have a "new" manual about the Barton pumps, gives LOTS of tech data on it, maintaince, repairs, specs, tolerances, etc. It's a 3 meg file, PM with your email, and I'll send it to you. I got it from Hale, who bought out Godiva, who bought out Barton. Also, if you call Hale with your pump's serial #, they MAY be able to give you a date of manufacture, who bought it (fire apparatus manufacturer wise, ect. The guy told me records are sketchy, but he had info on my 2 pumps.

I was wondering how your pump rebuilding went? I recently got a 58 Power Wagon Firetruck with a Barton UA50 on the front. It also has a Hale pump on the back run off of its own small gas powered engine. I haven't been able to find any data plates on the bed to see who built it. If anyone knows anything about my truck I would love to know too! Anyone know what something like my truck is worth? It has the original flat head 6 in it an it runs and drives. Thanks!

Here are the links to some pics of my truck:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4797.jpg



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4801.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4791.jpg


[IMG]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4790.jpg[/IMG]

That's a neat Power Wagon with the open cab

It's kind of like my 56 Chevy Brush Truck.

Mike B

WOW!!!

That's one of the strangest, coolest Power Wagon Fire Trucks I've ever seen!!! I want one!

I'm gonna go with HOMEMADE. The Barton pump was commonly provided for self-installation (the directions for the pump include somewhat detailed how-tos for mounting the pump). The Hale pump on the rear is unique, never seen that model before. The rear bumper/ground sprayer bar also seems very homemade, especially how it's plumbed. The additional pump is redundant, as the Barton pump was designed to be engaged while the truck was in motion, though the fire service has always been into redundancy for reliability.

Everything about the truck looks like some very creative, high-level fabrication from a department that wanted to add a brush truck to their line-up, and had a Power-Wagon chassis to build it on. It's a really good looking truck, and I love that it's got single wheels in the rear. It's sorta like a Jeep on steroids.

-Michael

I agree. That is a VERY cool truck!!

I have not worked on any of my vehicles much over the summer. I did tear down more of the spare barton pump but have not accessed the internal parts yet or started tracking down replacement bearings. If I finish the installing the new wiring harness on my '54 GMC COE this winter I will work on the pump.

I like those old power wagons. We have a few in the garage waiting for restoration.

There has been a power wagon based fire truck for sale in the Pittsburgh area for a few months now. A few years earlier than yours but similar in layout. This fire truck was "homegrown" from an original ambulance body (which is a shame as the orginal ambulance bodies with the spare tire inset and the pointed door frames are getting as hard to find).

Here is the add 1941 Dodge Power Wagon Fire Truck

Yes, front mount pumps can be used while moving "pump and roll" in theory. In practice especially in rough ground you are going from idle to full throttle and so goes your pump pressures. The pump on the back was installed to maintain even pressures as the truck moves and fights fire off road.
Chief 2

Chief 2,

Wow, that makes sense to me now. The Barton literature sure never says anything about THAT! Of course, they also sold a "portable" pump, suitable for the same purpose, so I guess you could have it both ways.

Thanks for the insight.

-Michael

Here is a portable American Barton pump for sale

Portable American Barton Fire Pump for Sale

These don't come up for sale very often. It was closer to home I would take a drive to look at it.

Good find! Somebody ought to snatch that up - you're right, they DON'T come up that often.

I'd grab it, but I've got two already. Maybe I could upgrade on the one that's not running . . . I think they're great accessories for antique trucks, esp. rural trucks. AND, they're kinda fun! Put one on a golf cart, and you've got a real mini-pumper!

-Michael

I have a UA 50 on the front of my 59 international. I know of a guy with a 46 dodge fire truck and though it leaks from every seal it still pumps water. He uses it at a local steam show every year. I have not put water in my pump but the impeller was stuck, a little PB blaster and some motor oil and a few days later and a couple of taps and it was turning freely. Unless they are rusted completely they may well work great without a rebuild. I have to find a clean pond and operating instructions before I try to pump it. Bill

Hi Bill,

I recently sold my 53 GMC Fire Truck.

When I had the truck I bought a spare Barton UA50 front mount pump with all of associated mounting and engine hardware.

I plan on selling the spare pump but if you need any pictures or photos while you work on yours let me know and I can take some of the spare I have. - Bob

Bill,

I'm an American pump enthusiast, and if you'd like help getting yours pumping, I'd be thrilled to help out. Send me a Private Message (think you can click on my id and do it from a drop down?) and I'll get you my phone number.

I've got instructions for the Barton pumps. The UA50 is one of the simplest fire pumps to operate. I wouldn't worry too much about "clean ponds", either. Only problem with dirt and mud is it can make it harder to draft. But you're not likely to hurt the pump - they're made with drafting dirty water in mind.

-Michael