The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop PAINT OR PATINA, your opinion please

Yes, it seems by word of a pa notary the photos of my 33 chevy 1.5 ton I recently purchased show a vehicle not in conformance with the pa regulations for acceptance for antique plates because the paint is not how it would have apeared in 1933. the truck is complete and runs. I am blown away as i had no intentions of painting this truck any time soon, I like it the way it is. its got just 13,979 mi on it, has 1948 pa insp. sticker and 1948 registration plates, and even a completely legible "T" fuel ration sticker in the rear window and the original wood bed, nothins ever been repainted. Im not trying to brag my truck but i dont think it should be painted as it is a true antique vehicle the way it is, dont know what im going to do. if you have any ideas please throw them my way, I just have a real soft spot for old stuff and these old trucks tickle my heart, but not being able to drive it breaks it. Im going to post this letter after responding back to your responce. Thanks for your responce, I would love to hear other stovebolters thoughts on this subject, and ideas. Ken

I wouldn't accept the opinion of a notary who obviously doesn't know beans about antique vehicles. Leaving her in her original livery is far and away preferable to me. If it were me I'd have a pow wow with your state DMV since they are the ones you'll need to please to get your tag. It's beyond my comprehension that any 1933 vehicle with it's original body and running gear would not be considered an antique. If worse comes to worse come to Kansas. We're not nearly as anal about such things. Good luck.

I had a similar issue with my 49 ford. Great farm truck patina and a New Mexico Year of manufacture plate. I really liked the way it looked. However, I could not convince Hagerty insurance to add it to my policy until I gave it quick hardware store enamel paint job. The paint job got her insured but I certainly believe I lost something in the process. You just can’t replace or successfully imitate good patina but try to convince others of that value? These were work trucks. "Patina" is what they had almost all of thier working life. If you used a truck in a period movie, this is what you would expect it to look like. My truck was featured in a magazine with it's old patina. This is what they were looking for.

Definitely leave her original.....you would kick yourself later. She's only original once and can be retored over and over. Some vehicles are actually worth more unrestored and they also act as a time capsule so everybody can see how things actually were as opposed to reading about it.Sounds like a nice truck!

Thats crazy. If you have to, find something that will get you passed that you can wash off later. Temporary paint?

most places for antique plates the vehicle has to be in near showroom condition, not just "old" - even no stains on the upholstery or oily engine, etc - understandable

if you're dead set on getting antique plates instead of regular ones [that don't require a paint job], ya just hafta play by the rules ... you might try getting some real cheapo water based interior latex and later scrub it off, but if you get the antique plates that way and get caught later, could be in a hellofa mess

Bill

In Oregon, all it has to be is old.

Ken,
Im also in PA, an when it came time to put my 52 on the road I just went with the standard registration, it was allot EASIER!.
My 52 runs regular plates ..."SO NO RESTRICTIONS"..THAT I REALLY LIKE.I work the graveyard shift and I'm frequently on the road in the middle of the nite, Some of PA's finest State Police officers like to to catch folks after dusk in there Antique plated vehicles...they got MY DAD a few weeks ago in his Olds ..they didnt fine him but gave him a hard time.
And as far as insurance ..State Farm came out & took a few pics gave us a policy of 22,000 replacement value for like $95 yr. all we did was class it a recreational vehicle.
Call your agent and ask what they will do for ya and tell em how ya will use your truck ya may be pleasently suprised, I was!
Tim

Have you thought about buffing the old paint? I sold my 68 c-10 a year ago and just saw it at the good guys car show the other weekend. I kept it in the original red patina but this guy just buffed it out and it looked great.

Enough said.

Wow, that's crazy! Here in Mass., once a vehicle reaches 25 years old, it becomes qualified for Antique plates , restored or not. there are limitations though. They only want you using them on sundays, or if it is a weekday, its only to a repair shop or to an event. basicly it's not for daily transportation.

Same in Kansas & Oklahoma. I can't believe people put up with the state being so anal about it in PA. I wonder what their reasoning is. Old is old. It's not a concourse plate, it's an antique plate.

A truck in the condition and age of yours is so rare I'll personally come to PA and kick your [censored] if you paint it. I'd fight that notary's decision all the way to the top before I'd let them destroy an historic artifact like you are so lucky to own.

As for the [censored] kicking, that only applies if you're over 70 and confined to a hospital bed

I’m gonna talk Illinois and State Farm here. I've a friend that’s in the process of restoring his 1950 half ton. It has the original badly faded green paint and rust on most of it and the front clip and a back fender is in primer and all of that has been sitting alongside the garage for the last 11 years. In other words, she taint no cherry. We've spent the last six months redoing all of the brakes, suspension, steering, engine and rear end, that is, everything to make it safe and to get it road worthy. He just registered it with Antique plates and insurance was the next step. His State Farm agent came out to take pictures of it since he was asking for full coverage and was claiming the value at around $18,000 (way high in my opinion without any body work or interior), anyway, there apparently is some sort of a problem with it being insured with it registered as an antique because of the paint and he said he had to look into it more. Now I don't have all of the facts yet but I just don't see where the paint condition, the interior condition, or anything other than the age of the truck has anything to do with classifying it as an antique. Any other antique such as furniture etc. looses its value if it’s refinish. The running condition and whether the vehicle would pass a safety inspection seems like it should be the only concern, unless of course your looking for full coverage at a radically inflated value.
If I’ve interpreted the previous part of this thread correctly, this is exactly what you guys are referring to in states like NM, PA, etc.???? Now I could certainly understand the insurance balking at high value full coverage on what to them appears to be a "rent-a-wreck" and I could understand their only being interested in issuing a policy on a fully restored antique, but I don't see any problem with them issuing a policy for liability on a vehicle registered with AV plates.
I haven't run into any of these problems because I didn't want any restrictions on my '50, 3600, it's tagged with 'B' plates because if for some reason I want to carry a load of gravel home, (not that I would) I simple don't have a problem. The fact that I have the freedom to use it anyway I choose is worth the extra four hundred buck more that I will spend on plates over the next five years. And as fur as the insurance goes I didn’t have to re-mortgage the house to buy my truck, it’s certainly not a show truck and if it gets bent up I’m the guy that straightened it out the first time so I’m pretty confident that I can take car of it the second time.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

don't understand the problem so many have with the situation - registering any vehicle for use on the road is simply a process subject to regulation [a "privlege", not a "right"] - the "antique" designation is a special case of that process, and so is subject to special rules, which are bound to vary by state/province/country - it was pretty much invented for collectors and hobbyists, specifically to make insurance cheaper on rarely used showpieces - what's the motivation for wanting "antique plates" on a vehicle that looks like it was just drug outta the trees? isn't that self-evident?

up here there are 2 categories, antique and collector, and each have different restrictions - neither can be used to/from work or school ever, either requires that you have at least one regular plated vehicle as well - but either is a fraction of regular for insurance cost, because of the restrictions, such as type of use and time of day, and part of the requirements of condition are because of that - my daily drivers have mostly all been over 25 years old, but I use'em, so get regular plates .... there's tons of over-25-year-old vehicles running around in daily use, do they all deserve cheap insurance cuz they're "survivors"? maybe you should lobby your DMV to create an "heirloom" category, where the vehicle can look as rotten as any farm field derelict .... of course the restriction would be it could only be used on the farm

and Denny, in the furniture world, 25 years old is "used" not antique

Bill

Wow, never heard of that situation before. I took my truck down to the dmv and they just handed me the antique plate after glancing at it through a window. And this thing had 5 different colors on it.

In Kansas it's 35 years old and older and yes it's about a cheaper licensing fee (a LOT cheaper). Therein lies my conundrum. If the vehicle is 35 or more years old what difference does it make what it looks like, it meets the age requirement and should be issued an antique plate. Some pencil pusher demanding an owner should ruin (IMHO) the value of an original vehicle in order to get an antique plate is wrong.

Good point

Now William, there ya go pickin' on me again. I made no mention of a 25 year old truck did I?? Think ya might be thinkin' bout Jeff on that one. In fact the trucks that I mentined are both 60 years old and I certainly wouldn't call them classics, or even antique, more like vintage trucks don't ya tink? Ohh for semantics!
The way the insurance and DMV looks at this seems to be a regional thing Jo, pretty much different in every state.
Now ya see Tiny, your livin' out in the wild west, anything still goes out thar in the flat lands.
DG

not pickin on you DG, but you did say "other antiques" ... and you should know [Jeff too] that "antique" with reference to furniture, tools, etc, is normally defined as 50-100 years old and of "significant interest" for one reason or other - in the US the usual period for vehicles to be classed "antique" is 25 years, but in fact there is a definition in US law set by the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, things prior to about 1850 I believe, the beginning of more mass produced consumer goods, like vehicles

besides, virtually every museum for anything "antique" restores the pieces unless they're already pretty pristine, where restoration decreases value is pieces in private hands that have had amateur touchups

Bill

Yesterday I tried to get antique plates for my '57 3800. The first lady I talked to didn't know anything about antique plates so she sent me to her supervisor. The supervisor told me that I couldn't get antique plates for a 1 ton. The requirements stated on the AR OMV website say "any vehicle 25 years old or older which is essentially unaltered from original manufacturers specifications" is eligible. I called the state office today and they agreed with me and are getting it corrected. The issue in Arkansas is that the folks who have the concourse restorations are complaining because they don't want average old cars and trucks to have the same plates that they get.

so the state actually issues antique plates in Arkansas. Hmmm maybe California does as well then.

And boy are there a lot of them around Bill!!!
I'm working on one of them for a buddy right now that someone made an attempt to re-do 15 or 20 years ago, what a mess.
This antique thing could go on forever, ask 100 antique dealers for their definition and you will get 100 different answerers.
Denny G

you got that right Denny, everybody has a different idea, depends on how they view life - to me old stuff is .... old stuff if it was well made it serves it's purpose for a long time

calhere - in California the requirement is 39 years or older

Bill