The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 57 3100 283 Oil Bath copper gause/horse hair?

I was cleaning my oil bath air cleaner today and was thinking of putting it back on the truck. I have been using a very small paper air cleaner/filter for quite some time now. Looking at the oil bath air cleaner I am wondering just how much of the fiberous part of it there is suppose to be?

Mine seems to be kind of brittle and more like horse hair then the copper gause the manual speaks about on page 6m-48 of the 57chevy truck shop manual.

I picked the cleaner up at a swap meet in TX about 20 years ago. Looks about right. But I remember having some of the fiber come out when I cleaned it last time.

Here are some pictures:
filter1
filter2
filter3
filter page

Is there a place to get new gause or hourse hair or something that works better or as good?

Any source for the cork gasket that sits between the two pieces?

I'd suggest cleaning all the old fiber fill material out of it, and replace it with the spun fiberglass stuffing out of an air conditioner duct filter. Just wear a respirator mask of some sort to avoid inhaling any airborne particles that might get loose while you're re-stuffing the housing. The loose-weave fiberfill packing that's used in upholstery work for pillow stuffing might work OK, too.
Jerry

air conditioner duct filter? Is that the same as a home heater replacement filter fiber material?

I found a kubota tractor engine air filter from napa that fit in mine w/ very little modification necessary. its replaceable when necessary now.

In your oil batch filter?
Is it exactly like mine in the pictures?
How does the Air filter fit in the oil batch one?
How did you modify it?
What part number from Napa is it?

Got any pictures of the filter, old oil batch filter and modification made?

I just looked online and the only thing I saw that looked anywhere near the correct size was this but it has a fan on it?
Napa Kubuta air filter

Actually that would not work. Mine is like about 4.25-4.50 inches high for the smaller part that sits in the center and has the fiber in it and would need to be maybe 5-5.5 inches wide to clear the ramp on the base. That napa filter says it is 6.25 high. Must be some other napa kubota filter, but most that I see are real long cylinders.


Got an email from the poster about the kubota tractor filter. It ended up being a different oil bath than mine. His was smaller/shorter. Maybe a differernt type.


Any other confirmation on what to do to replace the filter gauze with?
Is the blown fiberglass material from a heating filter safe to use?
Seems like it would maybe get sucked into the carb as it is pretty lightweight and once you get oil on it I could see compressing and not letting air through.

What about corse steel wool or stainless steel wool: coarse stainess steel wool

SS wool applications
"Applications for stainless steel wool:

- exhaustion systems for combustion engines
- insulating applications (temperature and sound), effective replacement for asbestos
- filtering techniques (liquids and gases)
- rolls and mats for conveyer and transport systems during glas manufacturing processes
- special cleaning processes with chemicals
- common renovation, cleaning and polishing activities where corrosion must be avoided

Our stainless steel wool is manufactured in the steel quality AISI 434."


Do you think stainless stell coare #4 would work to replace the gauze or is it still too fine?

I have not found any local sources for stainless steel wool to look at to see if it is too fine as a substitute for the filament that is in there. I did see some kitchen scrubers made from copper but they appear to be way too thick.

I also wonder about putting anything metal in the filter. If it were to get sucked up it might not be too good for rings and cylinders and pistons and all.

What was the original V8 oil bath filament air cleaner made from? Looking at it it is hard to tell. Kind of feels like bristles from a brush.

There are two stages to an oil bath air cleaner. The fiber-packed part does not get oiled. As the air passes through a couple of 180-degree turns on its way to the fiber packing, the heavy dust particles fall out of the airstream and get trapped in the oil. The finer dust particles get caught in the fiber packing, so it does not get oil-soaked, ever. The original material was a coarse-weave fiber similar to horsehair that could be washed in kerosene without being damaged. Very coarse steel wool could be substituted for the fiber packing, but the fiberglass filler material from a home air conditioner duct filter would work better- - - - -just change it occasionally instead of trying to wash it.
Jerry

I have been looking around the web for a source for some Oil Bath filter element. Mine is like horse hair or bristle like stuff not copper or metal. At least under a magnifyier it is all different sizes and very brittle now.

I fould this one source for oil batch filter elements for farm tractors and doser: oil bath element material
It is some kind of steel hopefully stainless so it does not rust.
It cones in 3 inch by 78 inch roll. I was thinking I could pull all the horse hair stuff out as it is so brittle and then try to cram hunks of this steel mesh up in there in its place. But I would have to work it through the little slots so I am not sure how flexible the steel element is and if it would give a good 100% coverage.

I see in the Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual: 54 shop manual page it says it is COPPER GAUSE as does 55 55 2nd series Shop Manual and the 57 manual I have.
Yet the Chevy Resto Pack says that it is "Cactus Fiber" for cars: See bottom left of page for oil bath element type
And "Cactus Fiber" for Trucks: Cactus fiber oil bath filter element

I am not sure where you can get Cactus Fiber from in its natural form that is not woven or something. Ideas, sources for it?

Also the 59 truck resto Pack says the V8 283 Trademaster used "Pita fiber" and the Taskmaster used "Cactus Fiber" : Pita Fiber and Cactus Fiber on 59 V8 trucks

I am not sure what Pita fiber is or where you would get any. Ideas, sources for it?


I see you can get Copper Mesh here but it may not be fine enough mesh: copper mesh

Or copper or stainless mesh here: copper or stainless mesh

I also have considered gutting the bottom of the center piece with the rim and slots that you can see the filter element in and cutting the fingers and bottom rim off and all the center stuff out then try to get a KN filter to fit in there like this one maybe: K&N E-9140 which is 4.125 inches tall and 6 inches outside diameter and 4 inches inside diameter. That might fit but it depends on if the inside of the oil bath filter that holds the element would come out cleanly.

I would hate to ruin it all.

Looking at some VW forums it appears that older Bugs and VW trucks used and oil bath air filters. They call it horse hair but say it is really "mature outer husk of coconuts, called coir" which makes sense to me as to what I am seeing in my filter. Can anyone confirm that?

Looking on the web again here is some COIR Coconut Husk Fiber that is whole and not mashed up with peat stuff which is another use for coir: coir


I might be able to get it at petco "Zoo Med Eco Earth Loose Coconut Fiber Substrate" used for naturalistic terrariums if it is actually long fibers and not cut up.

That Coir coconut fiber looks to be exactly like what is in my oil batch filter.
I guess coconut fiber, cactus fiber and pita fiber all look the same??
I wonder if they would all work the same in a oil bath filter?
Since they use Coconut fiber in VW oil batchs for so many years I guess it is OK to use it?

Can someone give me a confirmation on that?

Is it safe to take it all out and stuff new Coconut Husk Fiber into it to replace the 53 year old brittle stuff that is in the oil batch cleaner?

Well Wilber, you have certainly done your homework and I think you’re on to something. Since I am a purist about 95% of the time I've done a lot of wondering about the so-called "horse hair" material my self. This type fiber was used in other areas of automobile construction also, like in the seat cushions for instance. The copper mesh was used in the breather type oil caps also.
There are two problems that pop into mind when I think about this, the first is where to find the materials. This is where you have had the same problem. Maybe out of our 20,000 registered members we can pry that information from someone who knows of a source.
The second problem area if we do happen to find "horse hair" is how to stuff it back into the filter housing without damaging it. Being natural fiber it does tend to get quite brittle. It seems obvious that the fiber pads were formed and laid into the housings before the two halves were crimped together. Trying to push the new material thru the slots inevitably breaks it up which is what we don't want to happen. In the later oil bath filters there is a lot of this material and it is packed in there pretty tight. I’m afraid it would be quite difficult if not impossible to get the cavity filled as well as the original.
I believe the natural fiber material was chosen for a couple of reasons. One being that if a piece did break off and get sucked into the engine it would most likely just burn up without doing any damage. And the other is that natural fiber will soak up and hold some oil. Now you don’t soak the material in oil but it does become saturated with oil and this does help trap the fine dust particles. In the non-oil bath filters or spark arrester type the filter is charged with oil after it has been washed clean. Some were metal but some were natural fiber also.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I agree with all that you said. And mine are definately natural fibers of some sort. I guess the Catus fiber or the like. I have no idea how to cram them in there either but I think what ever I ended up with would be better than what it has in there now. But that does not mean that it would be great at filtering.

Also I saw some report on this site that showed oil batch was exellant at getting the big dirt and dust but poor at the fine particles as it can make the 180 turn and some gets thru the oil missed gause/fibers. Not that the fine particles would necessarily hurt my old motor but it makes you wonder. I do not run in heavy dirt areas so the smaller stuff is more likely what mine will have to deal with.

I hate to convert the oil bath to have a paper element but having a K&N filter in it might be easier for me to deal with and give more piece of mind when I am out and the truck will not start and have to pull the air cleaner off to squirt in starting fluid or unstick the choke or something or check for proper pump action. In those cases having to pull off the whole oil bath and lay it on the ground is a pain. If I just had the K&N I could take off the top center part and squirt some starting fluid in. But for the rest of the checks I would still need to remove the whole air cleaner. Maybe it sould not be any easier but I would not have to worry about spilling oil on a hot engine on on me.

I looked at some Copper Chore Boys at a store today. They are like brillo pads but have no cleanser in them and are rectangular but are plyable. A bunch of those crammed up in there might work. I think I read that someone on this form has already used them before. They seem to be about the right thickness of filiment. Might be a bit thick but might be OK.

I would be concerned that when sticking them up in there that there may be a void (air gap) somewhere that you do not see and the air and dirt would just fly up thru there. So again a K&N and a modified oil bath air cleaner might be the way to go.

I did some more checking and I think the closest fitting K&N might be a E-3344 6.25 OD, 5.25 ID and 4 inches tall. It may sit a bit too low for me. I might need a ring of foam on top or bottom to get it up a 1/4 inch to make sure that there is a gap for air to come in at the top of the cleaner like there is as a oil bath filter.

To but the K&N in I would have to cut my bottom of the inside center element holder off. The bottom 1 inch would have to go. THen remove the fiber and the whole center so it just has a shell to ack as the lid for the K&N.

I saw some 57 chevy cars that have the extra cap on top of the cleaner just remove the center piece altogether and install a canaster filter and the top lid and they are done. Here is an example but it would not work for my cleaner as I do not have the top cover: Chevy Oil Bath Element Air Filter, 1957-1958 if you have a top lid

See the instructions here: installation instructions for cars

Not real sure what I will do yet. I would hate to buy the K&N for 30-45 dollars and shipping and have it not fit after ruining my oil bath to try it.
I tried making a test templet out of paper and seeing how it might fit, it is close. But I am not sure about the top lid fitment until I would gut it.
The base needs to be about 5 inches ID to get to the relatively flat part of the base of the oil bath. But the OD neeeds to be like 6.5 or less or there will be no space for air to go up and in the filter. You could always cut more of the inside oil bath cover off like trim up the side until you get to the painted part.

I still have not decided what to do.

I decided to try to find another oil bath that was in good shape and use it for when and if I want to go oil bath in the future.

For the time being I went ahead and gutted my current oil bath by using a short hacksaw and cutting out the 6 legs that are connected to the center piece. That frees the bottom center piece but it will not come out unless you use snips and cut the honeycombed copper mesh that keeps the element fiber from going up too high and around and into the carb throat. That copper mesh was hard to get at but after cutting several lines I could bend enough of it up and out of the way that I could pull out the rest of the center insert piece that is horn shaped.

Then I cut the rest of the copper mesh out. I could have pulled it out from the sides as it is just crimped in there but I was afraid that might make the rest of the crimp (that holds the domed top to the cylinder side together) get loose. So I just cut the mesh close to the side and bent the rest down.

Then I cleaned it all with 409 and then with alcohol. Then test fitted a K&N E-3230 filter K&N E-3230

The K&N E-3230 Height: 4.375 in (111 mm) Inside Diameter: 4.5 in (114 mm) Outside Diameter: 5.625 in (143 mm) seems to be the almost perfect fit. It is a good seal for the top and fits the bottom but only the inside edge of the filter hit since that area of the bottom is slanted away from the center. As a result the filter may want to slide if not tight. I opted for adding a little double sided tape to fill in the gap to the oustide edge of the filter. Basically try to level it out. With that in place it has a real firm solid fit and does not slip around at all. It does not raise the filter any as it is just making the outside edge seal. I put two layers of double sided tape (3M heavy duty white mounting tape about 1/2 inch wide) then I had some wider Servo tape (basically same stuff but 1 inch version) that I used to go over the white tape and would cover both places that the bottom of the air filter would rest on. Contacted both sealing edges on the bottom of the filter. 3m tape here: 3M 1/2 inch mounting tape It also comes in 1 inch size.

The top edge rests flat on the top of the dome and seals well.

With all that said it still sits at the correct hight, about 7 to 7 1/8 inches high when mounted. It is a very stable fit with the tape in the bottom. I have not mounted it on the truck and driven with it yet but I do not expect any issues with it.

I think I could have just used some K&N sealing grease sealing grease resists heat will not run off or melt. and I may do that if I have any issues with the tape and heat. I may do it in addition to the tape to insure a good seal. I am not sure how hot the bottom of the filter will get or how hot the tape is made to withstand. I know the carb gets hot and I suspect the metal air cleaner will act as a heatsink.

I took some pictures and will post on a website soon and provide a link here in the near future.

Here is my webpage that documents the conversion process with pictures in case anyone else thinks they may want to try it.

Oil Bath Conversion to K&N Filter Process on 57 3100 truck