The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop dead 235

while backing my 54 truck outta the garage the other day its 235 quit like it was out of gas. being as i have no working guage i figured ok no fuel. added a couple gallons and hit the ole foot starter. nothing! engine cranks just fine but will not fire. can't believe it jumped time by the way it stopped. seem to have fire at the plugs but it won't fire at all? have fuel at the carb but after removing it it looks like a lot of fuel sitting in the intake. when i have someone crank the engine and watch the fuel seems to disappear but as soon aswe quit cranking the puddle in the intake returns. i'm totally baffled.

oleb97,

Welcome to the site. It sounds like you have done all the preliminary "what the heck" goes on things. The super easy way to get headed in the right direction, which means the fuel path or the ignition path is to squirt a little fuel into the carburetor as somebody tries to start the old girl.

Basically, if no pops, not spark. The iron clad test for spark would be to pull a plug wire and hold it to ground as the truck was started. It should show a pretty good spark..blue would be good, but it will probably be something or nothing.

To my knowledge, the only way this engine could "jump time" is if it were to break into several pieces on the floor. Keep thinking fuel or spark. Do those simple tests and they will lead you down the shining path to success.

Stuart

Some 235's do have fiber timing gears which do break occasionally. You can pull the distributor cap and crank the engine to see if the rotor is turning. If the rotor turns, the valve timing probably didn't slip.

If you get no spark, check the condition of the points and make sure the condensor didn't short out. Check for 12v at the - terminal of the coil while cranking. If it flips between 12 (or 6 if you have 6 volt system) and gnd, you have working points, but if it stays at 12/6 or gnd you have a problem with the points.

Josiah,

Yes, the cars usually had a fiber cam gear. On a probability scale of one to a million, the busted cam gear would have about six zeros behind it. The guy is baffled..this has happened a hundred times on this site. Everyone knows its bound to be a wire, fuel or a piece of junk in the muffler bearings...but it ain't gonna be the fiber timing gear. Why add to his trauma..make it simple for him to fix it.

Stuart

I don't want to add to oleb97s confusion, but how would he check for 12v at the coil terminal. He probably knows, but I don't. I'm dumb as a rock when talking about anything electrical. I do have a multimeter, but don't know how to use it. Allen

I would check the following.
1. distributor points(burnt or corroded)
2. point gap (.022" on new points, .018" on used points).
3. check the plugs, while you have one out, ground it against the block while someone cranks the engine over, be sure to have the key on. See if it has spark.
4. check the plug wires and see if the distributor cap is cracked.
5. could be the rotor under the cap.
6.Do you have the ceramic resistor between the ignition switch and coil, it could be bad.
7.check for loose or broke electric wires, start at the switch and work wour way under the hood.
8. make sure you are getting fuel,fuel pump could be bad,clogged filter.I would check this first.
9. Intake gaskets
10.Distributor cam gear ?

tried the grounded plug. shows a spark. unhooked fuel line at carb - fuel there. am planning on trying a different distributor later today. the one in the truck currently has been converted using pertronics kit.

tried that ole 235 again. replaced distributor. found one i removed was almost froze. turned very hard by hand. dumped some gas in carb and started craanking. not much results. did get 1 and only 1 tremendous backfire. other than that total silence.

oleb97,

Keep a fire extinguisher or some water close at hand. Things got sort of complicated..you tried the original distributor for spark and it DID zap, but now you have swapped units, added fuel and got a backfire. The original turned very hard you said...not proper, but maybe unrelated to the current state of affairs.

Now you are going to have to properly time the newly installed distributor and try again. You are sort of back to minus square one.

Point gap and timing will have to be verified on the distributor, and if indeed this was the problem, it should start.

Did you ever try a little squirt of gas into the carburetor with the original Pertronix distributor installed..did this do anything?

The basic problem, as mentioned earlier, is no fuel or no spark. Each one of these items need to be positively proved or disproved. Keep going, you will find it.

Stuart

could someone please give me a hand on setting timing. i know there are no timing marks on front of motor. believe mark is actually on fly wheel? have valve cover off so how do i establish when no 1 cylinder is in firing position?

Oleb97, turn the engine by hand, (I usually turn it with the fan) and with a light, look at the pointer on the clutch housing(right side of engine). There is a ball on the flywheel that should line up with the pointer when the number 1 piston is on top dead center. At this point, the rotor should be pointing at the number 1 plug wire on the dist. cap. I have even put a pry bar between the firewall, and foot starter linkage, and turned the enqine over, and with the number 1 plug out, put my finger over the hole, and on the upstroke, you will here a blast of air. When the engine is running, you put your timing light on the flywheel through the opening, and by turing the dist., you line the ball up with the pointer.
Hope this helps!
KT

Try static timing to start with. Bring the #1 to TDC,turn key on, and with a timing light on the #1 plug wire turn and rotate dist cap until light flashes. The result is usually within about 2 degrees, but close enough to start and follow up with normal timing procedures. I have done it on lots of motors 4,6 & 8 cylinders. works wonders when a dist R&R has been done.
Brad

Brad,

That's about the most clever thing I have heard all year! Not to hijack this thread, but do you know if you can insert a long, thin screwdriver into #1 and watch as it climbs to TDC?


Stuart

Be sure #1 is at the top of compression stroke and not exhaust.

Just my 2 cents; Many years ago, while in a hurry to get the 235 rebuilt in my 57 pickup, I (against better judgement) replaced the timing gear with fiber. After 3 years and several cross country trips, the fiber gear let go. I agree the odds are that something else is a miss, but it's a pretty quick check just the same.

OK guys.....I am no expert, but I can expert results. The way I do it is to apply the "K.I.S.S. Theory" It has proven to be the #1 best way to fix things. My step-dad taught me the theory. It means, "keep it simple stupid". This is to keep me from buying stuff before I look at the abvious corroded wire/mice chewed up igition wire and fell off when backing oout of garage situations. Remember "KISS THEORY" Oh and you need five things to run 1. Fuel 2. Spark 3. Compression 4. Timing 5. Air?? Is air #5?? I don't know. Good luck. Look for loose wires...something SIMPLE!!! You should have heard something weird if it broke something while running. YOu didn't, so it is simple...has to be SIMPLE. Good luck!!

CATMAN,

Does your "quick check" involve pulling the timing cover to visually inspect the cam gear?


Stuart

hey everyone! a big thanks to everyone here on the site with help getting my 235 running again. finally got it to fire up. not sure exactlly what the problem was? removed intake exhaust combo and replaced gaskets. turned motor by hand to no 1 cyl. replaced plug wired to coresponding cyl. added a little gas to the mix and presto chango it started. still doin a happy dance. thanks again to everyone.
ole b97