The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk can the front generator mounting plate be welded?

Although about generators this is a welding question.

One ear of the front mount plate broke off in shipping. This is a generator / power steering combo. I was thinking of beveling the edges to form a "V" and welding it back on. The "V" would be for greater weld penetration. Looks like cast iron. Anyone see any problems in doing this?

TX

Keith

Some say you can't weld cast iron, but I've done it using a nickel rod. It works well.

If it's actually cast iron, find an oldtime welder who really knows what he's doing. I'll bet he fixes it with brass, not nickel rod. Cast iron welding requires preheating, post-heating, peening, and an extraordinary amount of luck to work right. The part usually stress-cracks right beside the weld unless you get it exactly right the first time. Brazing is much simpler, and just as strong, if not more so. if it's cast aluminum instead of cast iron, TIG welding works pretty well.
Jerry

Did you buy it from a vendor or a person?

I think a vendor would make good on a new unit and a person should have some responsability in the deal since it was their error in shipping that allowed it to be broken.

Id look into those options before fixing a recieved broken part.

Jeff

Thanks Gents-I googled this and found that generally this can be a problem however there are many who say they have done it successfully-even with MIG. I've read that the recipe for cast iron can vary quite a bit-and the mix you have is a factor as to how well it will weld. Preheating and post heating is an option but I've also read you can do the reverse..I.E. by welding in a way that doesn't heat the part too much to begin with.

Jeff-you are right..unfortunately sometimes I'm dumber than a stump- I bought this on EBAY 2 years ago.. When it arrive broken I thought...no problem I'll use a plate off a spare generator I have..it was easier than returning it..but last nite I found that a front plate from a regular generator is different from a generator that has the power steering pump attached. It probaly will fit but it doesn't provide the same mounting details. I need to fix this or find a plate..which is unlikely.

Thanks for the response

Keith

I have only seen cast brazed. It works as well as welding. Why not do that?

Nothing wrong with brazing, but I must be either really lucky or just really good because I've been welding cast iron with nickel rod for about 20 years...

cleaning the area to be welded is pretty important. cast iron has lots of carbon and when you grind it it will leave a carbon residue that will impede good penetration. i think you should try whatever you want. i think brazing is the best. welding shops sell rods specificly for cast and they are in small amounts like 10 rods or so. i really wouldn't try the mig. i have unfortunatly experienced what hot rod lincoln is talking about. if you weld it cold a good chance it will crack and make it worse. the preheating i have found is very important! if you heat it slow and a large area then it will have a lot less chance of cracking. cast can take the heat if it is applies slow and let to transfer but when it is applied in a weld not so good. if you try to weld it with low voltage what's the use it won't penetrate good and won't stick. but give it a try what have you got to lose. i'm no welding expert! good luck. hr

i forgot to ad i welded a lift arm on a tractor with 6011 rod 20 years ago and it's still working! something like stove cast is harder to weld it seems more brittle and easy to crack.

On applications requiring preheat don't guess. Have one of these in hand available at welding suppliers:

http://www.techniweld.com/Catalogue/Tempilstik2.pdf

That lift arm is probably cast steel, not cast iron. 6011 is a pretty good all-purpose rod, but not for cast iron. Nodular iron, like what's used in high-stress applications for rear end housings, etc. is a lot easier to weld than an engine block or a cylinder head. Jasper engine/transmission exchange in Jasper, Indiana has an entire department dedicated to repairing engine blocks, transmission and rear end housings, and they do the preheat/post heat/peen method. Burying the part in sand to do a slow cooling is also helpful in preventing stress cracks.
Jerry

you are prob right, it may have been cast steel. i wasn't advocating using 6011 on cast iron, it was all i had at the time. i just meant sometimes things can work that aren't meant to so if you want to try something unorthadox like the mig, go ahead. i wasn't sayin i'd do it. i also welded a slant 6 block that had a cracked water jacket that held as well 15 years ago. i drilled holes at the end of the crack and preheated. i wish i could have buried it in the sand but i just kept applying less heat for a period of time with the rosebud. i didn't use 6011 on that!! surly that piece of junk was shipped to china years ago so who knows how long it held.

I need to look further but I've read posts about "bronze" MIG welding wire..Harris makes one for cast iron applications..Some sell it as silicon bronze wire..

"Cast steel" as opposed to "cast iron" ? humm..?
I'm having second thoughts about what the plate is made of..

Thanks everyone..some good stuff here to chew on..

Keith

Keith,

The thing to remember is if you melt the base metal then you are going to have to follow a 'procedure' to deal with the cast iron. It is full of carbon that will move around and change state...if it is heated enough to melt.

To get around all this metallurgy, you merely repair it without melting the base material...you braze it. It gets hot, but it doesn't become molten, that's the key.

Stuart

Back in the day before arc welding became common, old foundrymen would put the two broken halves into silica sand, dig a channel in the sand leading to the broken spot, and then pour molten iron into the channel. The liquid iron would fuse the two halves back together.
Now that's welding!
Sometimes we overthink this stuff...
Bluedawg

I read today that there is a silica bronze wire for mig welding cast iron..Need to look into it further..otherwise brazing seems to be the answer..

Thanks,

Keith

I have welded cast iron for 40 years. I dont use brass much cause
if it dont work wright or it brakes again it dont weld good cause there is brass in the metal. That is good cast you should be able to use 7018 rods. Pre heat it till when you spit on it
the spit rolls off, yes thats wright!!
Lets here how it goes. Use DC reverse polarety.

Hotrod Lincoln has it to a "T".
brazing is much simpler, and just as strong. all you need is an acetylene torch and some brazing rod, and you are ready.

leonard

I'd have to have my tanks filled..they will likely say they're too old and sell or rent me tanks...lol..I could find a generator for that much money..

If there's anyone out there that wants to make a buck and feels confident let me know...before you commit I'll take pics.

Thanks Keith

Shoot me an IM or an email. Pics would be good!

actionenterprise@yahoo.com

Jerry

Thanks HL

I'll take it apart and shoot some pics to you directly-

Thanks,

Keith

Way back in the late 50's I stuck a rod through the block on a Chevy 265. An old time welder patched it back with some kind of rod and I drilled and tapped a couple pan bolt holes in the repair and I ran it for years and sold it to a guy that ran it for more years, I guess it worked. I do know he didn't pre-heat it just started the 600 amp welder and burned in the 5/8" rod.

Reminds me somewhat of a process called stitching for cracked cylinder heads. I've had it done and it works.

They drill a hole in the end of the crack and tap it. Then thread a threaded rod into it. Then they drill another hole and tap it, this one partially overlapping the previous one..and so on and so forth until the entire crack gas beed treated..last step is the top surface is ground..been used for years..

Keith