The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Radiator support

It has been 2 and a half years since my tear down and though I took a ton of pictures it seems the very ones I should have taken I don't have. Moreover the 1954 assembly manual doesn't show my radiator support. Mine has only one bolt to the crossmember instead of all those I see with two. Also I see most with the X support rods and I don't find any in my pile of parts. I wonder if being a 3/4 ton is why it is different.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2387379900099708909AMBmAv

Check your PM's Jim.
Denny G

My '52 3600 radiator support has only one bolt to the crossmember and no "X" bracing.

Photo

Your photo shows two rods, bolted to the top of the support. Those are the X braces. How do they connect at the bottom?
Also is it not two bolts, 1.25" apart, at the bottom of the support holding it to the crossmember? If so are they bolts or threaded studs.

Just took a look at your album Steve, looks like you're moving right along, nice job. I envy you, wish I had the room to get my cab off and do my frame.
Are you sure there weren't any signs of there ever having the cross braces welded in to your core support? I'd like to get this straight for the reference file, this is one of those things that is all over the place, some have them some don't and there doesn't seem to be any consistency to the application.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Okey dok Jim, one more time, this is a ’50, 3/4 ton so it may be different, but here are a few shots of the front core support braces.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2492745260098611668zSuodb
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Thanks Denny. I guess I'll just find some 3/8 rods and fab some bracing. Can you tell just by looking what size and type thread those bolts to the bottom of the support are? I think I'll use vice grips and unscrew the studs I have and replace with some grade 5 bolts.

And Denny in regards to needing room to pull the cab and work on the frame. I built a platform out of 2 X s and plywood and stored my entire truck minus the frame under tarp for over a year while I worked the frame. If you have room in the yard...

The cross brace is 7/16" rod, the front braces are 3/8" flattened on the ends and drilled for 5/16" bolts. The center core support bolts are 3/8".

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

While stumbling around in a coma I discovered two braces (rods) flatten on the ends and a second brace a little shorter. Looks like I am one brace short. I may find it around here somewhere.
I had been stepping over them all this time and never paid attention to them.
I pick up the 3/8 bolts tomorrow and get this thing bolted down.

Denny,
Thanks...I'm lucky to have the room, but not enough time to work on it! There are no signs of the "x" brace welded to my core support. It definitely didn't come with one. The truck was totally unmolested when I got it. Maybe it was a measure taken to save metal during the Korean War. I do know that the radiator was made lighter in '52 with the air cells spaced further apart due to the war, and it actually gave it a greater cooling capacity.

As far as the X-bracing goes, the vast majority of the original AD I see have or had them.
When I was a Chevy parts man back in the 50's & 60's we stocked and sold a lot of core supports to body shops. I don’t remember ever stocking or sending out a core support with a cross brace welded into it. When ever a vehicle gets hit in the front end the core support is usually bent out of shape. It's the foundation that the new parts are built upon or the datum point for you engineer types. This is especially true of the Advance Design trucks since the entire front of the clip is hanging off the core support and the whole shebang balances on a 1" x 2" bracket at the bottom of the support.
For a long time now I've wondered if the replacement supports were sold with out the X-brace because I've seen quite a few that look like they had been welded in after the e-coat was applied.
What I'm suggesting is that the core supports that we see that do not have the X-braces may just have had some front end work done to them at some time and the body shop skipped the labor of moving the brace from the old part to the new part.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

That was my first thought as the front sheetmetal is the most likely victim in a collision.

I don't know guys, but I had a 48 parts truck that did not have x braces and my '49 does not have them. But I had a '51 years ago that I belive had X braces. There is a picture in my webshots below of the '48 radiator. Some one wanted to see the braces that run from the core support down to the lower splash apron. This weekend maybe I can take a look at my neighbors '52 and see if it has them.
Cleon

HERE'S a photo of the core support out of my '51. The braces are flattened on the ends and spot welded on.

You know, I’m seeing many different versions of core supports for the 1947 to 1953 AD’s and I’ve tried to figure it out from information I’ve gleened from the parts books.

It’s impossible to get any information on the cross bracing from this source so I’m afraid that’s always gonna be up for grabs.

In the 1929-50 and 1929-54 parts books there are 5 different core supports for the AD commercial trucks up to the front-end change in ‘54.

The 3686128 support is shown for the 1947-52 3/4 and 1 ton (Reg. Prod.) trucks and the ’53 D-D and 1 ton (Reg. Prod.) trucks.

The 3685795 support is listed for 1947-53 Comm.) (exc. D-D).

The 3786130 support is listed for 1947-53 1 1/2 ton (Reg. Prod.).

The 3686129 support is shown for 1947-53 UTIL. (exc.COE) (w/hvy. duty core).

The 3692219 support is listed for the 1/2ton from 1947-53 and the 1953 3/4ton. When used on a 1947-48 the note says you need to use the drill the cross member 4” to each side of center and use conversion kit 3692306 which is 12 shims, 2 washers, 2 bolts and 2 nuts.

Thanks for the picture Woody, the support that you have pictured has two U-brackets on the bottom. Assuming it is the correct original support for a ’51, 1/2 ton then one could conclude that the 3692219 would have been mounted at two points at the bottom and have a cross brace spot welded into the inside front of the support. Also your support has a horizontal brace welded into it, which I haven’t seen before. Is the spacing between the bottom holes 8”? I've got a buddy with a '50, 1/2 ton and I'll take some measurements on it next time.

Anybody with any first hand information orta jump in here and correct or add to this. It would be great to get this sorted out once and for all.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Been following this thread with considerable interest. I would love to replace the radiator core support on my truck with one less mangled--but with what? This lack of consistency Denny pointed out in a previous post is pretty frustrating sometimes. If I find a good core support at a swap meet will it be correct for my truck?

Anyway, here is a bit of consistency for the record. Woody's core suport looks a lot like the drawing in the 1947-54 assembly manual section 11 sheet 2.06 and 2.11. Also the Tom Brownell book How to Restore Your Chevrolet Pickup 1991 edition shows a similar core support on Page 41.

Seeing as my truck will not be original and wanting to make sure it is as tight with as much structural rigidity as possible I am going to get some rods and brace the support with the X and with the horizontal like Woody's.

Denny,

Thank you very much for your careful research and explanation.

Another reason the cross braces might have been removed and sometimes replaced (later) is that a quick "fix" to upgrading an older truck to a high-pressure 235/261 engine was to mount the radiator in interesting ways on the core-support. This was "necessary" because the late-55-to-63 water pumps most likely had long shafts that would have hit the radiator.

Eileen,

You might have jumped to a few incorrect conclusions in your second paragraph. Not enough of the core support is viewable (perhaps) in the Factory Assembly Manual and Brownell's book to be able to see the differences in 47-55 1/2 ton Advance-Design radiators supports/frames (and to be able to say that Woody's is the same - but, his might indeed look like them).

If you are referring to both of them showing the cross braces, you are correct.

Denny's information about 1947-55 regarding cross braces is interesting: however (as stated by Denny) 47-48 are different from 49-53 (1 base-bolt vs 2 base-bolts), and both are different from 54/55 (which have captive nuts for dual horns mounted on the front of the core support, and two base bolts).

The 1947-55 Factory Assembly Manual shows parts for 54/55-1st series for most of the parts.

Tim

This issue should be answered by someone that judges antique car competitions. Those guys could tell if you had the wrong lug nuts. They ought to be able to id the correct radiator support.

The drawings in the Assembly Manuel are almost all dated May or June of 1953 so they are not representative of the earlier models. However the 11-2.06 illustration is consistent with the parts manuals that list the double U-bracket mount and cross and horizontal braces on the 3692219 support.
Now keep in mind that if your looking at a pre-1953 3600 or 3800 it will only have a single center U-bracket that mounts to the cross member much like the ones pictured in the 11-2.07 and 11-2.12 illustrations for the ’53, 3800-4000-5000-6000 models.

Hey Big, I'd like to here from that guy also, that's what I was thinkin’ to, but I've had this question thrown out to the VCCA Chatter II for a few days and haven't heard a thing. I'm not one of the insiders and it seems like if your not, a lot of the times they just ignore your questions or replies. Gene S. usually has an answer for anybody that throws out a question over but he may be on vacation or something.

I leave any comments on the ’54-’55 front ends to someone else because I’ve had no exposure to them.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Yes Denny, my mounting bolts are 8 inches center-to-center. The crossmember also has two slotted holes in the center, fore and aft of each other 1 inch-center to-center.

If you want a photo of that, just say.

BTW, I read somewhere recently that the braces were added because the supports were flexing and causing cracking in radiators. I can't recall where I read it so take it for what it's worth... something I read on the Internet.

Woody could you shoot a picture of how both ends of the brace are attached to the support?

Thanks Woody, no need to post a pix I know just what you’re talking about. The center holes were used with the core supports that used the single center U-bracket. I just went out and crawled under to check out the cross member on my ’50, 3604 and although it uses the center mount it also has the two single holes 8” on center. I’m measuring 24 3/4”wide inside the frame a few inches in front of the cross member at the end of the frame. I am gonna take a guess that the 3100 and 3600 series used the same cross members just different core supports and the 3800 may also be the same. Maybe we can get Fred Truckernix to take a look at his Wonton after he has his coffee this morning.
It would be great if we could get a few of the guys with the ’47-‘48’s to let us know what they find under their front ends. If we get enough information together we may just be able to solve this puzzle.
The cross brace thing still has me baffeled. My ’50, 3604 has cross braces but, they have been added to the front of the support and the ends are not flattened. It’s clear that the factory did not put them there. At first I thought that they were original but now that I’ve looked into it a little further I don’t think that’s the case. Since I don’t have my front end apart I can’t tell if it originally had a cross brace, I just can’t get in there to see it.
This has me wondering what year the bracing rods were first added. It’s looking like ’51 was the first year that they appeared and it’s just possible that there was a service bulletin that call for adding the braces when complaints of radiator trouble was reported. This would have especially been a problem with the double U-bracket because it is rigidly mounted to the cross member and any movement of the front sheet metal would rack the core support. The trucks with the single center U-bracket would allow for some movement without racking the support but it is still not a very ridged structure so I can certainly see them having problems with the radiators in either arrangement.

Not to answer for Woody, but I’d bet there’s a 99% chance that the flats were just spot welded to the frame Jim. Don’t see what other possibility there could be. And getting back to the opening question you had, yes the center mount does appear to be correct for the 3/4 ton till '53. If it were me I would fab a set of braces and tack them into the frame and infact when I finally tear into the clip that is exactly what I'm going to do.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Here you go. I hope these help. If you need more, just ask, but the spot weld is identical on both ends.

PIC 1

PIC 2

PIC 3

BTW, that's Eastwood Rust Encapsulator over blasted metal, not red oxide primer over rust.

That's a logical conclusion and probably correct.

Thanks for the pictures Woody. I think I'll buy some rod and heat and flatten the ends, drill and weld, a DIY bracing.

I heard from Fred and he says he has GM documents that mentioned the braces, and he will post it as soon as he gets a chance.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

My '50 half ton has the cross braces with flattened ends. It was built in December '50 in the KC plant.

Someone cut the braces at one point. I suspect it was to remove the engine without having to pull the front sheet metal. The radiator has not been moved.

Do you have the horizontal brace at the bottom J? And I know it's very difficult to see but does it look like the braces were arc welded in or spot welded like Woodys picture shows?
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Just stopped by my bud's house this afternoon and checked out his relatively stock '50, 3104 to check out his core support. Cross and horizontal braces, flattened on the ends and tack welded inside the front and it has a double U-bracket mount to the cross member.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Have we established that the 3100s have the double mount while 3600s and possibly larger have the single mount?

In 1954/55 (at least), 3100-3600s had two radiator support mounts. In those years (at least), the 3800-6000 series trucks had a radiator support that had one mount (in the middle of the bottom of the support).

Yeah Big, I think we esstablished that back on page 2 bout midway down: "The 3692219 support is listed for the 1/2ton from 1947-53 and the 1953 3/4ton. When used on a 1947-48 the note says you need to use the drill the cross member 4” to each side of center and use conversion kit 3692306 which is 12 shims, 2 washers, 2 bolts and 2 nuts."
Denny G

Which is borne out on pages 11/2.11 and 11/2.12 of the Factory Assembly Manual.

The one thing that just bothers the daylights out of me is that the entire 1/2-ton truck front clip was supported at two points 8" apart and the core support was well cross braced to stiffen it up. But the 3/4-ton with virtually the same sheet metal in its front clip was only mounted in one place at the center until '53 and it appears that many of them were not cross braced also. I say this because many of the ones that I have seen without the original cross bracing were 3600 trucks. Even the later heavy trucks as Tim points out were still only supported at a single point.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

It is strange but there must be an engineering reason for this.