The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors Heater core needed

Well, just about the time I was getting excited about finally finding a place to repair and rebuild my '50 heater core, Denny makes me do some financial thinking. Geeeezzzz Denny!! Why'd you go and do that?!?!? HA!! You're right, those prices are astronomical and unjustified compared to what NEW cores can be bought for on Parts Train and other sites. Don't know why they have to charge so much except maybe they are the only ones doing fixing them?? I want a business to make a profit and prosper, but if the charges posted here are what they ask for then I'll probably pass and keep looking elsewhere. The only good thing is what Woody said, and that is at least we know there is SOMEPLACE that will fix our cores. Some consolation?!?!

Spot

Prices must have gone up a little. I didn't have to pay quite that much. But I needed my round core redone, and I went to several local radiator shops and they either laughed or said no way will we touch one of those. The rectangular fresh air core might be a different story, but that round core is a different beast and Classic Heaters was the only outfit I found who actually recore and not just try to patch it. The guy definitely found a market niche and capitalized on it. Plus like I said, I was very impressed with the workmanship.

Bob

I have had much the same experience as Bob, 6 shops and no takers. In fact I could not even get a shop to test the 3 heater cores I have.

I want the radiator to retain the OEM stamping and numbers for the 53, I have a perfect shape 54, but for the restoration, I want it correct.

Not all of us have the skill set and equipment that Denny has acquired over many years, the cost of which is incalculable. He has the time and skills to craft, modify or adapt a solution, that I certainly could not do.

I am sure that a large operation like Auto Parts Train understands the marketplace, and has looked at the investment required for the parts it does stock, and decided where they would place their money. It seem like even though there may be a lot of Bolters, my experience, gathered at this site, points to the fact that by and large we are a frugal, crafty and resourceful bunch.

On the plus side Bill at Classic Radiator. was friendly and very responsive, not a bad combination.

Enough on markets and the economy.

Mike

Trust me, if Denny's guesses on the numbers are anywhere near accurate anyone in the business would be all over this market in a heartbeat. Look at it this way - if you had the expertise to make these things and knew that the only other place doing it was knocking down $350 an hour how long would it take you to jump into the market at a "discount" rate of $250 an hour?

IMO, the problem is a little more complicated than a couple guys sitting around BSing about it understand.

exactly .... and note how many 'in the business' are all over it

the cost is more likely that they're making correct cores special [or having them made] rather than putting ridiculous markups on shelf stock - if the core material was readily available, my local rad shop [a very old and capable outfit] wouldn't be telling me it isn't

Bill

I'll bet the Cubans could recore your heater. They don't have anything (American) newer than 1955 down there.

I read this thread with irony. I have a complete Deluxe heater, hoses, blower switch, vent cable and knob - everything, and barely got a bite on it when I posed it in parts for sale.

I rebuilt it myself, had the core flushed, cleaned and sealed at the local radiator shop, installed a twelve volt motor, repainted, etc., etc.

No takers. So, I guess the market for these things isn't quite as hot as Denny thinks it should be.

Just got a reply email from Bill Carberry at Classic Heaters and he gave an estimate of $200 to recore my Harrison Deluxe fresh air heater core. It would come with a one year warranty.

He said a new one was not available.

At least we know where we can get the old ones worked on now.

Spot
San Antonio, TX

Is Classic Heaters the same place as CLASSIC RADIATOR?

either the same, or the same landlord, named "Cap-A-Radiator"

CLASSIC HEATERS
566 Fulton St (RT 109)
Farmingdale LI NY 11735
516-293-2175

Classic Radiator
566 Fulton St (RT 109)
Farmingdale LI NY 11735
516-293-9026

Bill

Denny,
The if you look at the numbers above you will see that the higher amount is for the round core. Also, as noted, you need to go to the site and navigate at the bottom to Classic Heater and Classic Radiator. main site is http://www.caparadiator.com

Mike

Found a local radiator shop here in San Antonio that advertised in the Yellow Pages that they specialized in antiques rads and heater cores, so I called and spoke with Mac, the owner. He said he could probably recore mine, so I'm taking it to him probably this weekend to get an estimate. He said he owned several old hot rods and was involved with the local hot rod associations and had built many custom radiators for friends. I got pretty excited, and can't wait to meet this guy. Hopefully his prices will be more reasonable. I'll let you guys know what I find out, and hopefully this will be a place we can post on Stovebolt as a resource for others wanting their AD heater cores rebuilt.

Spot

Czechman, I appreciate the good work you have done. I am trying to get some info on where the defroster on/off decal goes on the fresh air heater. You got any idea where or better yet do you have a picture of an original with the decal showing?? 47 1/2 ton in Memphis, TN

Thanks

Well, I finally have a bit of good news to report related to my heater core problem. I was in Kerrville, TX today on business and had stopped at a local upholsterer to see about getting my seat recovered and found them closed for the holiday weekend. Next door to it I spied an old wrecker in front of a house whos back yard looked like a wrecking yard. Obviously thinking that he might have some old iron back there I approached a man scraping paint off the roof of a race car he was building. I asked him if he had any old trucks back there and he said he DID have last week, but sent two to the scrap yard crusher. I was sick!!!!!!!! He softened the blow by saying that the '49 was pretty rusty and the '50 was not much better. He asked me what parts I was looking for. He then told me that the salvage yard had cut off, and had saved, the front clips of both trucks. The fenders and running boards were saved and that he might be able to get them for me. Then I told him I was *really* looking for a good heater core for the Deluxe fresh aire heater. He hesitated and said that while he was moving the truck to the flat bed truck to be hauled away that a core for that very kind of heater fell out of the truck. He had kicked it up in the brush thinking he would keep it for the copper in it. He promised to bring it back to his place and I'm to go by and pick it up...FOR FREE... next time I'm there in 3 weeks.

I just hope it's in good shape, but yes, I guess we all get lucky once in a while. What a way to end a long week!!!

Spot

Denny, I know my heater isn't perfect, but it's a darn sight better than no heater at all. Some folks might want perfection (like you seem to from your description), but some folks just want a working heater. As you can see from this lengthy thread, they're not that easy to come by. But your argument has always been that there should be enough demand to make manufacturing them profitable. If that were true, my flawed heater should have sold quite easily. So, I think the likelihood is high that the demand isn't nearly as great as you think it is.

I'm hardly an authority on these things but I have noticed that there are at least two ways to move the lever that diverts the airflow to the heater or defroster ducts. One is cable operated and another requires someone to reach down and move the lever. My heater is one of the later.

I would venture to guess that the cable operated lever does not use the decal, only the later type so that when a person reaches down and moves the lever they can see which way to move it.

If anyone has more information on the small but perplexing difference I'd like to hear about it... and a photo of a stock heater with the decal in place would be nice too.

I've seen restored fresh air heaters sell for $300 less than a year ago but recently they seem to have dropped considerably in value. It's been my observation that anything old goes through wild swings in price and with the uncertainty of the economy right now, everything seems to be slowing down.

I'm not familiar with the heater you were trying to sell so I can't comment on that one specifically... got pictures?

Here's the pics:
front view
rear view
another view

I don't recall now what I was asking for it, but I know I based the price on the price of a new core.

And just for the record, no, I'm not trying to sell it here.

One last thing - I thought that I had the heater core flushed and cleaned at the same time that I had the original gas tank done, but it doesn't look like it, so maybe I didn't. I just don't recall now. I suppose I could scrounge through my receipts.

I ran the heater for a few years after rebuilding it, and it worked fine, didn't leak, heated properly, etc. I removed it when I installed the air conditioning this year.

I would think that the best way to solve the problem, if it can be solved, would be to find a modern core that could be modified to work. That way cores would be plentiful and the mods wouldn't jack the price up too much.

Well, well.......more good news to report today! I've just returned from a local "old school" radiator shop who advertised that they worked on antique and custom radiators. Rudy stopped what he was doing, plugged my heater core, plopped it into the tank and put pressure to it. It didn't leak one bit!!!! He said the holes on the outside were only through the part of the core that exchanged heat and would not affect it's performance. So, all I need now is some new 5/8" heater hose a few cold beers and some free time tonight to reassemble the heater and I'm going to have heat this winter!!

Rudy is a one man operation and is willing to work on "all comers", including recirculating, round type, heater cores. He wants to contact his suppliers and see if core material is available in the correct demensions (or close) and will work up a price for a re-core repair job. The plan is to post his shops' address and phone number so everyone on Stovebolt who needs work done can mail him their core or radiator and have the work done. He's one of only two that I have found that will work on these old things. He seemed eager to do it and would like the business. I will post the information later after we talk again.

More good news on the horizon!!

Spot

Okay, I need some help installing my Deluxe fresh air heater. There were no hoses hooked up when I bought the truck, so I have no reference. When I put hose clamps on the necks of the pipes on the heater valve, won't they crush the pipe when I tighten them or is there another way to attach the 5/8" heater hose? Same thing on the heater core, but the inlet/outlet pipes feel thicker and probably won't buckle when I tighten the hose clamps there. That heater valve just looks fragile. I just don't want any leaks from being too timid to tighten the clamps.

One more question......where do you bolt the capillary tube coming off the control valve? There's a little hole directly beneath the cigar lighter that I could use, but that's the only place I see. Does it go over and bolt to the heater housing?

Thanks for the advice.

Spot

See figure 99 in the accessories installation manual: it attaches to the dash mat.

Not unless you go nuts tightening them. It's nearly impossible to collapse a tube by applying pressure evenly around its circumference.

This is a very confusing question. The capillary tube is a small diameter tube that would never reach to the dashboard. It screws into the firewall pad. The rod with the *WARMER* knob on it passes through a bracket that bolts under the dash, at an angle HERE

TCLederman and Woody,

Thanks for the schematic and for the interior shot. I looked again before your replies and never did find another location for the cap tube, so I was able to straighten it out and it ran a straight line to the dash and to that hole directly underneath the cigarette lighter, so that's where I bolted it. It isn't binding the control rod or the defroster hoses, so unless it won't register the correct temperature, I'll leave it there. Tell me if it's completely wrong and I'll move it. I

Is the "dash mat" the same as the firewall cover?

Thanks,
Spot

The capillary tube should go where it's supposed to go so if you're asking me for my opinion, that's it.

Well, I have good news to report. I've just finished removing, refurbishing and reinstalling the Deluxe Fresh air heater in my '50 1/2 ton. And guess what.......it actually blows hot air and does not leak!! It only took me a couple of weeks.
I'm really proud of how it turned out and that I actually did the job myself. I know most of you are laughing right now about how simple it is to do, but when you've never done it before it can raise doubts about ones abilities. I kept at it and now have a working heater for this winter to show for my considerable efforts. It's a nice feeling of accomplishment, and a feeling I'm sure all of you get whenever you fix something on your old AD and then enjoy the results. Thanks to all of you who gave advice and/or sent schematics and photos. I really appreciate having you guys to come to with my technical questions. It made the job a lot easier for me.

Now to report the condition of the heater core that my new friend John in Kerrville, TX promised me, and then to report the estimated cost of a heater recore from Rudy at the radiator shop. I'll be talking to him this week and will try to post his prices, phone number and address after he gives them to me.

Spot

Can anyone out there with a parts manual tell me the original Chevy part # of the Ranco heater control valve that is used with my Deluxe Fresh air heater? I want to make sure I buy the correct part.

Also, where do I mount the defroster cable knob?

Thanks much,
Spot

Not sure what the Part Number is but it's a Type H-11
PICTURE
I think the knob mounts under the dash just to the left of the steering column.

Thanks to Woody for the photo of the Ranco valve showing the type number and to Denny for his photo of the defroster cable placement. Exactly what I was hoping to get. Just went out and looked, and yes, there are 3 holes very close to where Denny's cable is located. I can mount my new cable there with room to operate it with no problem.

You guys are awesome and I can't thank you enough for your time!!

'Bolters are the best!!!

Spot

Spot,

The original GM part number for the Ranco valve is at the top of this page.

This is an invaluable resource made available by Keith Hardy in the Old Online Chevy Manuals portion of the Old Car Manual Project (OCMP).

Tim

Tim - Spot,

I have my re-built valve sitting in my office, I pulled it and looked at it, and infact that is the number stamped on the reverse side from what Woody showed in his photo, it is preceeded by the letter C, and underneath it has BLR 5. It is very difficult to read on my valve.

Mike

Thanks Tim for the valuable resource. Had heard about the online manual project but had not seen it. I've saved it to "favorites" for future use.

Thanks again!!

Spot

I'm still wondering if when I have the heater control valve in the "coolest" positon (off?) will the coolant still circulate through the heater core and give off any heat in the cab? I still don't have the truck ready for the road so I haven't been able to answer my own question.

Thanks,
Spot

Spot:

Did you ever get the information on recoring the heaters from the radiator shop you found? I need to have my '51 heater recored and there are probably several more guys who are interested.

Larry

What I installed in my truck is locally called a "fuffle" valve. It can be bought at any Napco store. It's simply an on/off
pull lever that is installed on the hot water line in the engine comp. I utilized the choke pull for the activator. That way there's only heat when you what it.

I had My deluxe heater recored at a place called heat and cool last month it was 85.00 they told Me they do not make that type of core anymore but they were able to modify by cutting up two cores from some other cores it works and fits too.So it can be done old timers always have a fix.


Pete

Right on Pete, I've heard that "can't be done" story from a lot of guys. It seems to me that their radiator shop is just one of those flush and paint shops and not a real radiator shop. Any good radiator shop should be able to re-core any radiator as long as the upper and lower tanks are salvageable. Might not be the same core design but for a small heater most any core design should work. By the way, $85 is really a good price for that work, hang onto that shop’s number.
Hate to put you on the spot again buddy, but if you have an online album it would be interesting to see a couple of pictures of that re-cored heater. There has been a lot of discussion on this subject in the past and any new findings would be more than welcome.

Hey there Mellow Yellow, you can also use a ball valve from Harbor Freight but I think a lot of the guys are trying to stay with the correct Ranco thermostatically controlled valves that the trucks had in them originally. There has been a lot of discussion on those also and Woody has posted some nice photos of his rebuild in his album.
And Spot, if the Ranco valve is properly rebuilt and adjusted and if the diaphragm is still intact when you turn off the heat it should shut off the water flow, at least most of it. The internal valve seat is not a very good fit in these valves so you may still feel a little heat but you'll have that from the firewall also so I doubt if you would notice it.
I've driven my stock 1950 for three summers on those Midwest dog days and as long as your moving these trucks are quite comfortable. And I might add that the deluxe heaters do an adequate job in the colder weather also when everything is as it should be.
Lets not loose sight of the fact that this is 60 year old tecnology, you can't expect the heaters to work as well as the one in your 2009 Silverado. Also, back in the day, men were men and they could handle things being a little rougher than the men of today.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

It looked much the same as the old core and I forgot to take any pic's I came home and put it in right away, I had the rebuilt rad and the heater core and wanted to get the engine running after I rebuilt it .But there are places that still have that get it done mentality and just look at somthing and say I can fix that also living near Chicago is good and bad on the good side there is alot of options when it comes to getting things parts or repairs .

Pete

We have been taking all our fresh air heater cores to the same radiator repair shop for over 30 years now.
We found out that the old timer that runs the place will be retiring & selling the property.
This guy is the only guy that I have found that knows how to repair & pressure test the fresh air cores.

Since we knew his days at this shop are numbered.... we took all our heaters apart & had him repair & pressure test all of our cores.

We were lucky... we took him 4 cores at a time & he only charged us $20 to repair & pressure test them.... Our $80 investment neted us 16 good cores.



http://members.cox.net/images4755/Img_4373.jpg

Here is a good shot of one of our NOS heater control valves for reference.

http://members.cox.net/mothertruckeraz/Img_3847.jpg

One note of caution regarding our fresh air heaters & control valves...
Our old radiator repair man said that the original cooling system is designed for a zero pressure radiator cap....
He stipulates no more than a 4 lb. cap is to be used with these original heating systems.

And he was absolutely correct, I made this setup to check the heater cores and Ranco valves and made the mistake of bringing one of the cores up to about 8lbs and clould hear the tubes creaking and expanding. The original cores are simply not made to take pressure. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/harrison_h-02-47&page=2
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL