The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 1965-1966 GM/GMC Dump - Convert to Diesel?

Are there any diesel engines that would bolt to the gear box in a truck of this vintage?

GMC had a Toroflo Diesel in this era that was nicknamed troubleflo.

That doesn't sound too promising

I don't remember right off what the first year the Detroit Diesel 4-53 was offered in a truck? But I think it was the next body style?

Either way, I think one would fit reasonably well in a 66.
Not knowing what transmission you have now, If it has an SAE clutch housing then it can be used behind the Detroit. And even if it does not there is still a chance that it could fit with off the shelf parts.
But realistically you will want an OD with whatever diesel you choose, assuming it has enough HP to travel at a reasonable speed. If not an OD transmission, then faster gears in the rear axle.
Diesels generally have a lower operating RPM range than a similar gas engine, so to get the same speed and driving characteristics you need faster gears when you swap to the diesel engine.

The cost and time involved in a diesel engine swap is almost never worth the savings in fuel. So if you want a diesel engine do it because you will enjoy it, not because you think you will save money, you won't.

Grigg

Grigg,

You could get a 4-53 in a C-50/C-60 somewhere around 1964.

Bill

Good Advice!

The reason I was contemplating diesel is the pulling power compared to gasoline engines and I'd really like to locate the fuel tank to an external location (my thinking is diesel is safer to do that with) so that I can get little leg room and room and so my fat belly doesn't rub on the wheel turning corners....it's kinda like the "fingernail on chalkboard" sound you know?

They sure didn't build those year of truck for "driver comfort" if you know what I mean!

The 4-53T I have in my truck came from a 78 GMC 6500 dump truck. I drove the dump truck home, about an 8 hour ride. Empty it weighed just over 14,000 lb, the engine has an advertised 175 horse power, and it ran good. The engine was none to strong for just the empty truck, I can't imagine earning a living with that truck and engine combination, it would make for some long days. Another 50 hp would have made a big difference, or if I had lower expectations.

I guess my point is if your truck will be heavy then even a 4-53 with turbocharger won't be anything special in it. But perhaps it will be better than the gas engine you have now?

What does your truck weigh empty, how much are you likely to haul, and how often?

Grigg

A 6V-53 should fit in there. I believe there has been a few put into pick-ups and believe there is at least one on You-tube. Altho if it were my truck, I would be happy with a 4-53 in a truck that size.

I'm going to guess that the GVW is about 19,500.

I had a '62 GMC 4000 with a 305 V-6 gas and it pulled just fine. The GVW on that truck was 19,500 and many times I would go over (back in the old days).

Bill

Yep, a 6V53T would be a good choice if it fits easily. A normal 6V53 without turbocharger is only as good as a 4-53T (T for Turbo), but with the extra weight penalty.

I had a one ton truck with a 6V53T actually twin turbos, it was a fun truck, and a hood full. Even so I don't think a 6V53 conversion in a 1 ton truck is a great idea it's a lot of weight and size, even if it does fit and work.

You can check out my photo link for pictures of it, and if you have a 61 ford engine compartment to compare yours to you can get an idea how well it will fit, as it just fits the Ford without any firewall modifications, and with very minor inner fender trimming.

Grigg

If pulling power is your only objective Diesel isn't always the right answer. If you choose one of the small Diesels that will fit easily you may find that the power is not competitive with some of the gasoline options.

I recently read a comparison test between two brand new Chevy trucks, comparing the big gas motor against the biggest Diesel and the gas powered truck out-performed the Diesel on every measure except fuel consumption. The gas motor burned twice the fuel doing the same work. Acceleration loaded and unloaded, pulling hills loaded and unloaded, the performance measures related to pulling power, were won by the gas motor in this comparison.

Now the test was performed before the Duramax (I sometimes read old magazines) and it may come out different if using the most recent motors, but my point is simply that filling the tank with Diesel doesn't assure more pulling power.

If you want to run a Diesel by all means do so. But make sure you are realistic in your expectations of whatever motor you choose.

Grigg,

I almost forgot about your old Ford. I remember seeing a clip of it pulling some where at an event.

Bill

Right, I had it at the county fair truck pull just over a year ago now. I had never pulled before, not even a tractor, although I had watched my friends. So it was just for fun, and lots of fun it was! Pulled just over 200 feet if I remember right, better than more than 10 of the other trucks in a class of 20 total.

Here is the video (really poor quality):
The sound is pretty good, no mufflers at all, just a 3" pipe off each turbo, both exiting behind the rear axle. Note the left front fender settling back down when I spin out and then release the clutch.

Grigg

If you are looking for pulling power, none of the Detroit 2 cycles were known for pulling power. They derived their horse power from rpm's. Thats why they were called screaming jimmies or later Yamahas. Until the late 70's there were many gasoline powered truck tractors with saddle tanks. I drove a gas powered GMC until 1968 and never gave it a second thought. I think the movies put a fear into people about gasoline explosions. With our over the road bulk hauling trucks there is no substitute for Diesel power. We have them set at 1450 ft. lbs. torque out of an 11 liter engine. But I would never convert a old bob tail to diesel unless it was one of those things that I wanted to say "I did it"

Here is a 64 Chevy with 4-53 on Ebay, the link is also in the ebay links section (where I found it)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270263016334&rd=1

I doubt a 4-53 with no turbo is much of an improvement over your gas engine, although it may get better fuel mileage, and it will certainly make more noise.

Grigg

Grigg

I've been enjoying this thread

So this might sound dumb but the 1966 C50 I have has a 327 chevy small block in it - would a diesel out of a mid 80's gm 1-ton be comparable or much less power than the 4-53?

My assumption is that with the chevy bellhousing a mid 80.s gm diesel would bolt right in?

Mid 80's GM diesel from a pickup should be the 6.2 or 6.5 liter variety, a V8, and although some folks like them, just as many don't. With proper care they can last, but they are not known for being extremely reliable, strong, or long lived engines. (but I have no first hand experience with them, best to listen to someone who does... you have a later turbo version right?)

It should be comparable to your gas engine, but nothing special.

The Detroit Diesel 4-53T is also liked by by many, and disliked by many, but not for the same reasons as the 6.5. The main complaint about the Detroits is noise, and perceived lack of torque. In reality they make noise, and lots of it, and they have plenty of torque, just at a few hundred RPM higher up than folks are use to. They are also extremely reliable, strong, and long lasting, all important for a real truck engine. Very simple and economical to work on too.

But that's enough brain washing...
If you want a Detroit decide for yourself, figure out why, and write it down so you can remind yourself later on if you forget. They are good engines, but they are not for everyone.
Pick an engine you understand, admire, respect, and are not afraid to work on; anything less and you won't be happy.

Grigg