I seriously considered a COE for this diesel conversion/everyday driver. First some background; This whole thing started with an idea, not with an old rusty truck that needed some work as many projects do. The first few things to decide were what engine and what truck, as I was starting with nothing. The Detroit 4-53T was chosen just before I decided on an old truck conversion, the engine was first priority, a truck to put it in was second. I like the AD trucks, and at that point was reasonably familiar with them from driving and working on my 52 1 ton. I thought that the 1 ton would not be quite strong enough for the work I had planned for the "new" diesel truck. The next thought was a 1.5 ton same wheelbase, but I learned it is essentially the same frame as the 1 ton, so not strong enough again. Next thought was a 2 ton short wheelbase. At this point I thought about a COE, because I really like the looks, and had worked myself up to that size truck. I may be wrong, but I decided the COE would be very difficult to perform routine maintenance on the engine, belts, hoses, adjust injectors and exhaust valves, fix oil leaks, pretty much anything that had to do with the engine. The engine being the most important part of my idea/project it had to be more accessible. That left me with a conventional truck for easy engine access. I then started looking for a 5 window 48-50 6100 (137" wheelbase, and ended up finding all that I wanted but with the longer wheelbase. Now that I'm this far along I'm glad I went with the 6400 with 161" wheelbase, I'll have a 10' 6" flat bed.
And a few years later here I am.
One day I may tackle a COE project, as I do like them. Would be great if someone wanted to hire me to figure out and install a diesel in one.
LMAO Grigg that was the coolest, it was perfect you were flat-out flying wish I could have seen the grin on your face. How many bugs did you have to clean from your teeth??? LOL hey "click it or ticket bud" LOL You need to enter it in a cannonball race before you put the cab on it
It makes me chuckle too. If I could see the look on someones face as they see it for the first time, and don't know what the truck is supposed to look like.. that's probably even funnier
Congrats Grigg, looked like a Wild Ride, I may have to start calling you MR. Toad. I anxiously await getting to see this project in person some day! MONGO
very awesome Grigg i would definately say send it to funniest home videos also, i knew what the truck was gona look like but holy crap you were givin 'er
Last few weeks I have been trying to plan for and make the plumbing for my intercooler; that I don't have, makes sense right?
Lets start with a picture of the left side of the engine with both the air inlet for the blower (supercharger), and the starter (we'll get to the starter in a minute). [IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/64/564/6/99/35/2998699350080251109rqhYEk_th.jpg[/IMG] The blower in in the middle of the left side of the engine, and it has an air inlet housing that points up and over the engine where a crossover pipe from the turbocharger should be. I want this to point forward so I can get air from an air to air intercooler that will be mounted in front of the radiator.
It's tight on that side, the air compressor hangs out there enough that I don't want to make the inner fender suffer any more by trying to get this 2.5" air pipe beside it. So it looks like I can go under the air compressor, beside the steering gear box, and just over the top of the frame rail. making a perfect shot for the space under the core support where the intercooler outlet will be. Only complication being the 1.25" air line feeding the starter, it is squarely in the way: [IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/66/666/2/39/45/2422239450080251109xwRdKP_th.jpg[/IMG]
So I got to thinking how can I move the air inlet pipe for the starter, it was hard enough to figure out the first time, looks doubtful that I can do any different. I checked my spare but newer model air starter to see if it was the same arrangements, and it is, but it looks like I could modify it. Then I called the air starter folks near me http://www.cvisairstarters.com/ and inquired if Ingersoll Rand makes a different end housing for either one of my starters that would allow for the air to come straight in the end and inline with the starter, no such thing. I asked if they had any other ideas, and they suggested several different starters all together, but in the end we decided I am stuck with the one I have because of it's offset gear reduction, which is why I got this air starter in the first place, it actually fits. They also did not think I could make a new cover/inlet, as it was complicated inside in how it directed the air to the turbine, they had no other ideas. I thought it looks pretty simple, so I pulled it and took a look, dead simple. Here is the old end cover and the new one, and the new one installed on the new turbine type starter, as opposed to the vane type I have in the truck now: [IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/68/168/3/51/98/2138351980080251109mbAAAH_th.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/60/660/7/96/94/2296796940080251109fqDPkS_th.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/60/660/3/19/64/2479319640080251109qjIGjb_th.jpg[/IMG]
This weekend I hope to get the starters switched out, have to disassemble both part way to interchange/reuse the fine tooth pinion gear, and to orient the new one so it fits. It'll be Tuesday before I get the Code 61 flange kit (hydraulic hose kind of connection) to connect the air line to the starter, and I am curios what this new turbine starter sounds like compared to the vane type. Also hope to get the blower inlet done, I have to make a tool to form a bead in the end of the 2.5" tube to help the hose stay on, get that to work, and then weld it to the inlet housing casting.
Next on the list is to rebuild the blower, I already have all the parts, and a friend lined up to help who has done it a few times already. Then plumb temporary air crossover pipe in front of the radiator.
In the distant future is fitting the cab around the engine, then inner fenders, front sheet metal, intercooler, AC condenser, electric fan, and shroud if I can.
Tomorrow I hope to get the starter painted, installed, and I'll have the final bits of plumbing hardware needed to hook it up, if I am lucky I'll even try it out and make a recording/video.
It has a very different sound than the vane type, sounds like a big rush of air more than anything else, with a little but a whistle. Also quieter than the old one, but still plenty loud. The vane type sounded almost like an impact wrench.
Looks like a Cat starter too me LOL BTW you have a fast cat but I don't think it was too impressed. Grigg that is the second video you have made that has gotten me laughing.
I went out to take a video of the new starter, mostly for just the sound, but when I saw the cat sitting there I knew she would be fun to watch She's not to bad for 14 years old, ran about 15' in no time flat before stopping to look back, did not seem to happy about it, but appears to be back to normal this morning.
Grigg that is a 14 year old cat? You’re going too give her a heart attack!!! I have a cat here that looks vary much like yours she is much younger though. Her name is Booger because she is, she is not my cat I am her human and this is all hers even the trucks and she lets me know it.
We tried some air starters in our bulk hauling trucks for weight savings. Only one battery and the starter weighs about 1/2 that of a 42mt. They worked fine, but when it got down to round 20 degrees, any little bit of moisture would stick valves in them. But I'm sure you have no intentions of driving your project in that kind of weather anyway.
We tried some air starters... when it got down to round 20 degrees, any little bit of moisture would stick valves in them. But I'm sure you have no intentions of driving your project in that kind of weather anyway.
Well, I do plan to drive it any time I need a real truck, be it summer or winter. But I will be hesitant to take it out in the snow, and I hope to have a nice garage for it to live in when not in use. So you do bring up a good point, as freezing air valves could be a problem.
I have a good air drier, and expect it to do it's job, but I also am not entirely familiar with air systems on trucks and the problems and difficulties I may have.
Once running and up to pressure the air compressor will cycle infrequently, as the transmission will then be about the only thing that uses air, and not much at that. Hopefully this equates to very little to no water in the system, as the compressor won't be in constant use.
"Once running and up to pressure the air compressor will cycle infrequently" The compresssor works all the time only RPM's effect the rate. Thats why the systems have dump (pop off) valves, when the system reaches the set air pressure it dumps air and builds again. So anyway there is only a pressure regulator and it runs all the time.
Underdog that is incorrect there is an unloader valve on the compressor that controls the compressors cycles. When an airbrake system dumps that is an air dryer expelling moister from the system. On a properly operating system the compressor will stop at operating pressure between 90 to 125 psi. It is true that the external pulley or gear will remain turning but the internals will stop most work an internal clutch through a pushrod that rides in a bore at the back of the crankshaft controlled by the unloader valve on its cylinder head. If you listen to the compressor as it builds air you can hear it stop when it reaches its set pressure and restart when that pressure drops to low.
Right, my compressor has a governor, and it holds open the intake valves in the compressor once it reaches the set pressure, about 125 psi, then when the pressure drops to 115-120 or so it drops the valves and starts compressing air again. When it cycles you can hear it working and then coasting. When it is coasting it can't put any condensation in the tanks. The governor on the compressor also signals the air dryer to purge every time the compressor is unloaded/coasting.
I do have two pop off valves, but they are only safety valves and are set around 150 psi, never should open if the governor does it's job.
I've been watching 'Ice Road Trucker' on TV and they use some kind of fluid to dry out air lines when things are really bad. Can't remember what it is but it is mainly ethanol, or methanol. Can't remember which. Those systems have to take care of the trailer air brake system too, though.
195? Chevy 3800 dump truck 1973 Chevy C30 cab and chassis 1987 Suburban 3/4 ton 6.2L Diesel
You can buy air line anti freeze, but plain old rubbing alcohol works as well. A heat gun on the starter works too. But our bulk trucks leave out at around midnight, and this was not the thing we wanted to mess with at that hour. We have both Wabco and Bendix air dryers on our trucks and change the elements regularly, but some how a little moisture gets into the tank. We had separate air tanks for the starters. From the compressor we went through the dryer and then to the wet tank and from there to the dry tank and from there to about a 40 gallon tank for the starter. CF used to have upright tanks about the size of the muffler. I don't know of any fleets that still use air starters any more. Your compressor will pump more than you think. Brakes use a lot of air, and you probably will have air leaks. Don't get me wrong, I am not condemning air starters, but you should be prepared to occasionally have hell with a cold start.
The concern would be the relay valve freezing I think. The new starter I have is a turbine type, no rubbing parts in it, just bearings. It is supposed to have no problems with a little water or trash, and it needs no lubrication like the vane types do.
My brakes are hydraulic, although if the air disc brake technology is more advanced and available in a few years I will convert to air disc. So for now my truck will use very little air other than starting.
The picture you have posted is the IR air starter that has been around for about 25 years. I'm not sure what happens to them, but when there is frozen moisture in them, instead of turning, they just blow out of the exhaust. Depending on how cold it is, a few minutes with a heat gun like you use for heat shrink fixes them. This probably wouldn't be that much of a hardship with a truck you tinker with all the time. But for our bulk fleet, we went back to 42mt Delcos. We are looking at the new gear reduction Leece Neville starters. They are supposed to weigh half of a Delco.
Grigg if you could find one we use to have an old Autocar I believe it had a Cummins in it but it had a clutch housing with two starter ports as it had both air and electric start. You may see if you can find a clutch housing like that for your Detroit. I guess the electric starter was for Monday morning when the truck had no air left and the air was for the rest of the week and daily restarts LOL
I guess IR has come up with a new internal design. We lost interest 15 years ago because of the cold weather problems and haven't kept up with them. It will be interesting to find out how yours preforms in cold weather.
Well, I have not had time to do much the last month or two.. But last week I removed my blower, which I suspected of having badly leaking seals, and I also wanted to update it to a "by-pass" blower.
Well, not sure where the rest of that last post is.. It seems to have disappeared on me, I remember it as being full of links/address of blower rebuild pictures. Moving on, now with a rebuilt, updated, and reinstalled blower.
I replaced the braided stainless covered line feeding oil to the Jake brakes and replaced it with some 1/4" hard line and inverted flare fittings. Start with this picture and then the next three http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2342108950080251109QeDIYG
Grigg, I've been hanging around this forum for several years now. I consider myself an accomplished wrencher and thoroughly enjoy my 51 6400. I've been following your build, and I have to say that it is fascinating and inspiring. I find myself searching the internet for used 4-53's. I do have a question for you. Had you needed a PTO for your truck, (to operate a hoist, etc..) what transmission would have been a good choice to use with the 4-53T? Are PTO's fairly common with these levels of transmissions? Jeremy
1949 Studebaker 2R16A 1961 Chevrolet Impala 1968 Chevrolet Corvette Roadster 1971 C10
Jeremy, Thanks for the compliments. In your search I would strongly recommend a turbocharged 53 series and pass on the non turbo versions. It's a whole lot of work to do such a conversion, and ends up being a pile of money too, you might as well do it right the first time with the turbocharged version, stronger, more efficient (think mileage), and slightly quieter.
Transmissions, I did not want a PTO, but none the less, any and all of the options I considered have standard PTO openings. Anything over a pickup sized transmission will almost certainly have a PTO opening, and a number of smaller transmissions will as well. A good choice of a transmission for a 4-53T is first of all, Over Drive, and second is equally spaced gears, the more the better. Start considering 5 speed transmissions, and look up from there. Don't choose one that weighs much more than 300-400 lb. To much overkill hurts performance, mileage, and hauling capacity, not to mention the bigger transmissions just won't fit in the chassis.
Again Grigg all I can say I ahw,ha ha,ha,ah,ah I love it!!!!!! You can drive it around like that all you wish as far as am concerned of course your Highway Patrol may not see it as amusing as I do
Glad you enjoyed it! I wish it was legal, would have cost less to drive to the show than it did to tow it. That little trip on the road was only a few hundred yards, not that it's any more legal... just enough to shift from 1 up through 5, and stop again, although the truck easily takes off in 6th gear from a stand sill if wanted.
Here's the video in question, now that we're on a new page. http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=tGzUb2Rpges&feature=email
Ya got the shift pattern down good. The Jake was kicking in and out also. You can really hear it well on the computer. I wish I tried it, but there will be other chances.
Just looking at the web shots; gotta say You're making a lot of people like me, green with envy. Love that early (47-50) Load master design and now you make it a relevant workhorse for today. That's beautiful and talented work. Are you an engineer by trade; maybe a former Big Rig driver? I have been quietly following your build of this old 6400, but I just had to say how much you're inspiring this old truck driver. Nice work, but please, don't ever mention cost, just in case my wife is reading over my shoulder someday. Thanks, Dave
She's not to bad for 14 years old, ran about 15' in no time flat before stopping to look back, did not seem to happy about it, but appears to be back to normal this morning. 