The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 4bbl carb position

I just recently got a clifford 2/4bbl aluminum intake manifold w/ a 4bbl adapter for my 52 235. I also purchased a holley 390cfm 4bbl carb to top it off and was wondering which is the best positioning for it on the intake. Im going with a cable type gas pedal and it would be the cleanest and shortest run if the carb could be positioned on the intake where the connection for the throttle cable was on the driver side toward the fender. This way the cable could run up along the firewall and just make a turn towards the front of the truck and directly to the carb to minimize bends and length of cable. This would also keep the fuel line routing simple.

The carb:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D0%2D8007&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Basically looking at the picture on summits site, thats the position as if you were standing looking at it from the driver side front.

The gas pedel:
http://www.lokar.com/product-descriptions/eliminator-fm-throttlepedals.htm

For the cable im also using lokar

Would this be fine?

Regardless of how it's mounted, that's an outrageous price to pay for too much carburetor. Unless you're planning to take turns at approximately the speed of a round track racer, I don't see a problem with mounting it sideways, however.
Jerry

Have you found a better price?

I'm curious, so don't take this wrong. What is the gain after this carb/intake set up is on the motor ? What I'm wondering is will this give you HP or performance gains.
Dan

The reason I went with this set up is because it's a state-of-the-art carb, and being a 4-bbl it's essentially a 195 CFM with 195 in reserve without the inherent complexities of running multiple carbs.

Furthermore Holley has this aftermarket stuff down to a science and their customer support is outstanding. The carb comes with a DVD that goes into detail on every aspect of the carb including a simple process for determining the correct jets. Parts are reasonably prices and readily available as is phone support if you need it.

I can't speak for everyone but having a piece of 21st Century technology at this critical point in the powertrain seemed like a smart move to me.

"I don't see a problem with mounting it sideways, however."

The Clifford has an angle built into the carb bolt plenum (don't most, why?). This would not be an issue?
Woody,
I do remember someone on the forum in a previous thread mounting thier sideways and link to pics are attached, with the use of a cable throttle too.
I also thought from my reading in the archives, for a Holly, this is the carb of choice for a 4 barrel, for the reasons Wood mentions and progressive secondaries.

Brett

Woody, Sounds like your doing this also, the original post was by Chris.
I'd sure like to see the carb/intake setup, I bet it looks good,plus I've always liked working with Holley carbs because of the easy tear down.
Dan

I fail to see the advantage of putting approximately twice the necessary carburetor volume capacity onto an engine just for the bragging rights of having a 4-barrel. The secondary barrels on that carb will never open, unless you run engine-destroying RPM in 1st. or 2nd. gear. If you have a good reason to run extreme speeds, and build the engine to survive at speed, that's one thing. I do it all the time with round track race engines that are expected to be worn out, or blown up with less than 1,000 miles on them. I guess building an engine for looks instead of reliability or practicality is OK, I just don't see the point. So far as using a carb that's easy to repair- - - - -I prefer to use one I don't have to think about for 20 or 30 years, kind of like the Carter 1-bbl. carb on the 1951 Chevy 216 I just acquired. I doubt if it's had more than an idle mixture adjustment since the 1970's.
Jerry

As far as high tech, that carb was designed & used in the 50,s. Granted the fabrics & gasket material has been up graded. They are fun to tinker with & will look cool at the shows & cruise nights.

I'm not going to disagree with you on those issues Jerry. Before Holley came up with better gaskets I was rebuilding the carb on my Corvette every spring after winter storage just to fix the leakage.
I was wondering if that 4bl was needed to improve performance or was a cool looking upgrade.
I remember back when I thought a Holley 780 in place of the stock 650 would gain me something only to find out after the switch the 650 did a better job and I had to pull it off.
Dan

I have to agree the 390 Holley is more than just about any 235 street engine needs.
A 350 Holley 2 bbl(a 350 cfm 2 bbl is equal to about a 270 cfm in the 4 bbl cfm rating), is plently and by my own experience will deliver better low end,mid range and top end power plus better fuel mileage.The 4bbls are usually mounted sideways,the 2 bbl can be mounted either way.The slight "slant" of the manifold to carb mounting will have zero effect on performance.

Have not personally run a 4-barrel on a 235, but I have run 400 CFM Carters on a 121 CID 4-cylinder Pinto, a 195 CID 4-cylinder Pontiac, and a 300 CID 6-cylinder. Since the Carter AFB is an airvalve carb, it was not too much for any of the above (granted that the Pinto 121 was a race engine).

All of these installations worked very well. The 300 CID 6 was in place for more than 400,000 miles and was untouched during that period. It was mounted sideways, and delivered 22 plus MPG at 70 MPH in a van.

The secret can be in the tuning.

Jon.

thanks for the replies everyone, sorry if i stirred up something

Anyways I decided to go with this carb for a few reasons.

1 - I bought the intake off of another truck forum, I got the clifford intake with the 4bbl adapter and a set of clifford tube headers all for $500 even. These parts were used once on engine startup and then taken off, owner decided to swap in a v8. New all this goes for around 750. So it was a deal I couldn't pass up.

2 - Clifford recommends no less than a 350cfm carb with this intake

3 - since the 4bbl adapter was already there, I decided on the 4bbl

4 - Ive search the forums and a few others and this seemed to be the carb of choice as far as a 4bbl goes

I'm planning to run a few upgrades to this motor as well. Im going to try to find a 848 head, ive already installed a hei distributor, maybe a mild cam (but not sure) and of coarse the headers. I'm also thinking of either a 4 speed Saginaw to replace the 3 speed for an easy swap or a t-5, a little more involved but as it sounds WELL worth it, Currently the rear end is a 12 bolt from a chevy nova (have to find out what gearing I have, maybe tomorrow). It is only going to be a street machine, country road cruising and highway driving.


I will let everyone know how it goes when finished.

Good Luck with the Holley, Personally I have never had any good luck with there carbs, just too much messin for me,but I will say I only messed with there 650's an up and found them just not worth the hassle.
I like a good ol Quadrajet, or my newest purchase a Edelbrock.
Just my 2 cents

I ran my Holley 390 with the carb turned sideways, which allowed the use of my original linkage on a 250, and it ran just fine. I did sell it in an effort to go back stock with the engine and truck.

tech tip::
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/4bbllinkage.pdf
The primaries in parallel w/ the cylinders. You could use a stock AD pedal which pushes a rod to a bellcrank on an engine plate http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/1951otter/?action=view&current=Scan1_0001.jpg
that has a 2' lokar cable set up like you show, to the carter linkage that faces away from the head. ALL very adjustable. As seen in these photos. This is on someone's 292. Not sure all engines can mock up this plate so the lokar cable-pedal works great.

SEE Inliners International : http://www.inliners.org/
click on ''tech tips'' ...then ''Throttle Linkage''

>> A common problem on inline engines that have carburetion upgrades is throttle linkage. Most modern carbs are designed to operate by cable throttle, not the primitive rods found on most early engines. The following deals with GM inline sixes but same principles apply. It can also apply to multiple carb installations where two or more carbs are linked together and operated by a single cable. There are certainly many ways to skin a cat, but here is a solution I used after trying several others.
>> The diagram above shows how a 4-barrel carb should be mounted on an Inline engine. Note that the secondary throttle bores are inboard and parallel with the cylinder alignment. Now, there may be some carbs where this just can’t work, but it is appropriate for most modern (Holley, Edelbrock, etc) 4-barrels. If you mount the carb sideways like a V8 it’s easy to see that fuel distribution is going to be unequal. The engine will run - but you will lay awake at night, just knowing that one end of your motor is getting more than its share of fuel !

BUT do let us know how she all works out D-52, please. I have liked your work in the past.

You don't have anything to apologize for. Discussions like this always bring up different points of view, the problem is that some people think that if you don't agree with their ideas, you're wrong. That's no fun and fun is a big part of this hobby.

Completely agree. Have posted a number of times, if there were a "best"; then we would all drive "best" cars which would be "best" color, and have "best" tires, and wear "best" clothes, and ..... oh well, everyone should get the picture. And wouldn't it be boring!!!!!

Let us know how you like the 4-barrel, after you have had some fun with it.

Jon.

I installed my intake and 4bbl 390. it runs good. Clifford gave me the recomended starting points for adjusting the carb.

Care to share that information?