The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop AD S-10 frame swap questions

In the middle of my frankentruck project and I am locating the cab on the frame.

Few questions: Opinion - 2" or 3" cab above height dimension. I have been here:

http://chevytrucks.org/tech/s10_frame_swap.htm
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8491
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144798

I am looking for the following:

actual dimension of frame horns to cut off
dimension from X to front fire wall or some other dimension

Most importantly - need to resolve steering. The stock box has to go for room for the RAD and CAC. The narrow track width is making me look towards Appleton or Sweet for a steering rack.

any ideas from the BTDT crowd?

Scott

Yep, been there and done that...

7" get cut off from the front frame horns. You should end up close to the steering gear box.

My cab is 5" up off the frame. Any lower and you'll be cutting the floor.

Steering box stays where it is.

Thanks Rick. Any pics would be appreciated. I plan on spacing the cab only 2.5" and adding a tunnel along with trimming the front fenders. The steering box interferes with my current RAD and CAC pic - here that go along with the diesel, so I will be pulling the steering box which is a shame because the whole chassis looks almost new. Any dimensions from cab to frame to ensure I have alignment and for/aft spacing?

Scott

I'm in the middle of an S-10 swap on my 48 5 window. Here's a shot of where I cut mine:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...k%20project/1948Chevytruckproject062.jpg

Here's how I mounted the radiator support. I cut the radiator support down to clear the steering box and I am using a shorter aluminum radiator:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...%20truck%20project/1948chevytruck007.jpg

$140 from eBay but Speedway has them cheaper I found out:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/62ChevyII/1948%20Chevy%20truck%20project/1948chevytruck68.jpg

Here it is with the sheet metal in place, I had to notch the inner fenders to clear the frame and also notch the front lower valance to clear the steering box:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/62ChevyII/1948%20Chevy%20truck%20project/monstertrucks025.jpg

Hello Scott. I put my cab a little over 3" off the frame on my swap. I wish I put it a little higher because I have hit the bottoms of my fenders several times.
I also used the stock radiator I just kicked the bottom of it foward a little. I made a new support for it using square tubing.

Thanks guys.

I just finished cutting the frame, even with the back side of the front rad support mounts (about an inch forward of the back of the stock steering box). I will shoot some pics later this weekend.

If I can get the engine back another 5 inches, I can drop it about 3 inches which will help greatly as the diesel has an SAE 3 housing on it which is a little big.

Scott

Hey 62Chevy,
Can you give some more details about the raditor you went with. Dimensions, model, what engine you are going to be using it with and any more pictures you may have of it installed. I'm getting up to that point on my S-10 swap with a 54.

Thanks,

There are several places that sell these radiators. The dimensions are 19" tall by 22" wide (outside of tanks). My latest Speedway motors catalog has a Tru-Kool for $129.99. I don't have the radiator installed yet but it should fit inside the shortened 1948 radiator support with a little trimming of the support. I'm just planning on a typical SBC for the engine. Which I haven't installed yet. I am busy on house projects for a while so the truck project is on hold for a while. ,

Here's roughly how I modified the radiator support. First I positioned the sheet metal where it needed to be then I slid the radiator support into place until it bumped into the steering box the measured the amount it stuck up from the "ears" near the top of the support to where they are supposed to bolt. Seems like it was about 8" I took out but I've slept since then. It will vary depending on how high your cab is off the frame (mine is about 3 1/2" above the frame):
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e...n=view&current=1948chevytruck003.jpg

Here is a couple shots of the shortened radiator support:
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e...n=view&current=1948chevytruck005.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e...n=view&current=1948chevytruck004.jpg

Then I got the bright idea to switch to power steering and the darn power steering box had more crap sticking up requiring trimming of the radiator support. I plan to add some material to strengthen the support where the big hole is now:
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e...ion=view&current=truckproject007.jpg

62chev

since your cab is mounted 3.5" above the frame, can you do me a favor?

I need a dimension from the top of the frame horns (where you capped them) to the top of the sheet metal hood latch plate (top of rad support). I need to play with locating the RAD and CAC that will be needed for the diesel.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

Sure thing Scott. I wasn't exactly sure where you wanted the measurment taken so I measured from the bottom of the "ears" on the radiator support down to the top of the frame rail. In front of the support, it was about 14", behind the support it was more like 13 3/8". The rails kinda drop in that area near the steering box so that is why it was so different front to back. I assume you can get the real dimension you need using the measuremnt to the ears as a reference.

Thanks 62...

Here is a good picture of my dilema . I currently have the steering box unbolted and sitting on the ground with the pitman arm. If I mount the CAC as shown, plumbing is a snap (4 hump hoses and 2 6" sections of tube). If I rotate the CAC, I can mount a rad slightly higher and duct with sheet metal. The steering rack idea is looking better by the moment (just more cash out of pocket - fudge)

The next question - cab mounting: To isolate or not to isolate. I do not plan on running conventional running boards and I need to create a unique rad support. The benefit would be reduced noise and vibration.

Scott

Have you thought about mounting the cab a little higher then grabbing some S-10 drop spindles to get it back down on the ride height? It might help your clearance issues.

As far as isolating the cab mounts. I am planning to just run some rubber under the cab mounts kinda like the stock 1948 mounts had. If I end up wanting more ground clearance or hate the vibration, I figured I'd add some rubber bushings more like the S-10 had.

I'm kinda clueless... what in the world is a CAC?

CAC = Charge Air Cooler sometimes referred to as an intercooler. I already plan on drop spindles as well as a future 2.5" section to the cab and a 2" chop.

Scott

Oh okay, silly me. I thought it kinda looked like an intercooler but never heard them refered to as "CAC".

I think if you have the cab 3.5" off the frame and use dropped spindles too it will possibly drag the fenders unless you trim the bottom of them off.

Neat project, what is that little diesel out of?

The engine is a 3.3 liter industrial engine. I plan on trimming the fenders a few inches to prevent the draging portion.

More pics of Frankentruck's progress.

OK, so I have some industrial universal isolators. Time to find a chunk of 2 x 4 tube to make the mounts. The isolators have a 0.9" height over their support. The 2 x 4 tube with a piece of 1/2" flat stock for the support and the re-bound washers and I have 3.5" above the frame and isolation of a modern truck. Pictures when I get them finished.

I may have also found a surplus rad in our inventory.

Scott

Some progress, some steps backwards. Frankentruck is a little slow to respond, then again, I am not really Dr Frankenstein, because if I was, Igor would be working on it when I am at work during the day. Will most likely end up turning the CAC 90 to the left which is where it currently sits, however not shown with photographs.

Spent most of the day wiring the engine, ECM, gauges, etc. to try to get the engine ready to run.

Scott

Back to this project. Having problems with electronics and software which has taken most of my time. I do now have the transmission adapter in hand and should have mounted today.

Right now attempting to sort out the steering dilema - stock steering box is in the way, looking at Rack & Pinions. However the very narrow S-10 chassis doesnt leave much room to work with. The Camaro rack is out. Would leave only about 8" for tie rods which is not enough. Sweets and Appletons are really expensive and prone to short lives, however not as expensive as the Unisteer Performance conversion. I heard of people using Explorer racks ( link ) and Chevette racks on S-10's, however I can not find if they were successful or not as they are not finished. I will now be looking into flipping the spindles and using a cavalier rack.

Anyone else have a suggestion?

Flipping the spindles will mess up the Ackermann. I'd suggest going with the unproven rack choices instead.

My concern is the unproven rack choices appear to have excessive bump steer. I hate being on the bleeding edge of a project.

Bump steer or terrible tire life because of back Ackermann. Neither is a good choice.

Can you change anythign so it would allow keeping the stock steering box?

I could extend the fenders and hood to move the grill forward about 5". Other than that, not without spending a lot of money on new custom heat exchangers (radiator and Charge Air Cooler). These are good for 120F and full load with an engine driven fan, and about 100F with the electric that I have.

Scott

Move the motor back five inches? Cut into the firewall and floor to gain clearance?

Its your project and of course you get to make the plan. I'm just tossing out ideas hoping between us and any one else joining in we can find a way to make this work for you...

I already have a chunk of firewall removed and the engine moved back a bit. However I would have to move it back far enough for the rad to sit behind the steering box, which is about 11".

Stock steering box is not an option at this time.

Scott

I ran thru some Ackerman calculations this morning, and the Chevette rack is doable if my estimate on rack lenght is correct. Does anyone know the rack lenght of a Chevette Rack&Pinion unit?

My mom and both my sisters have owned Chevettes years ago but I don't think I've seen one in years. I wonder if you might find one in a wrecking yard?

Added thought: Was the Fiero front suspension based on the Chevette? If so they might use the same rack, and I still see some of those on the road.

That is my thought, however I have scoured the local yards and came up empty. A re-maned rack is $130. If I the length is correct, I will also grab the PS pump as well.

The Chevette was a re-badged Opel Kadett. With that stated if the rack is the same width as my Opel GT, then I am golden. IF not, then back to the drawing board.

i AM USING 83 S10 FRAME, CUT OFF 7 INCHES, ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE TO WITHIN 1/8" THE FRAME RAIL ON THE DRIVER SIDE SEEMS TO BE BENT INWARD,i HAVE A MEASUREMENT OF 30 3/4" FROM OUTSIDE TO OUTSIDE OF FRAME RAILS,COULD SOMEONE GIVE ME A MEASUREMENT OF THERE S10 FRAME WIDTH,COULD BE MY EYES ARE TELLING ME i AM GETTING OLD. THANK YOU ALL

I have 30 11/16, however I believe mine is tweeked slightly. Are you referencing the front stub with the steering box prior to the cross member. If so, yes they look bent, even when they are straight. I can measure my '90 parts truck when I get it stripped down this weekend.

scott

Thank you Dan,I took this measurement after I cut off 7inches of the frame ,it does look as if the frame is bent at or near the steering box,this could be my eyes of course.I would appreciate it if you could measure yours parts truck.I would hate to think I did all this work to find my frame bent. Thank you again

Claude, The part donor measured between 30 5/8 and 30 3/4 depending on the amount of rust and scale you removed.

Scott

Though I would revise this post. Havent had a chance to work on the truck since the move, however still looking for a really short steering rack. Anyone with a Ford Explorer and a tape measure. Read on the HAMB that an explorer rack may work, however no one has dimensions yet.

I still have to figure out where to mount the power steering pump as well. The downside is that the small diesel I have is running out of room to put accessories.

I could go manual rack, however I then have to go to manual brakes. I would like to get good fuel economy so I am thinking electric power steering pump from a Toyota MR2. That would solve two problems.