The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Urgent Fuel Pump Question

I need some fast help... I am stuck and will end up spending the night in the cab if I can't fix this.
Is there any way to troubleshoot and unclog a fuel pump on the side of the road? It seem I am not getting fuel to the filter.... any help would be greatly appreciated.

Boswell

An ol' timer in an AD school bus converted to a camper broke down in front of our house. He trouble-shot the situation and concluded it was the fuel pump. He took the thing apart and found that a check valve had come loose. He pressed it back into place, put the pump back on and drove off. I was impressed.

The nice thing about the older fuel pumps is that they can be taken apart (carefully) and cleaned out or rebuilt.You should be able to take a line loose and blow back into the tank. Does yours have a glass bowl on top of the fuel-pump?

No glass bowl... and remember I'm really new at all this stuff.

Boswell--

Assume you've got tools. First, disconnect the fuel line running to the tank from the fuel pump. This line should freely run fuel out on the ground. If it doesnt, then you either have a clog in the line or in the tank--these can be freed with thin wire run up the line or by disconnecting the line at the tank.

If fuel runs out on ground, then clog is likely in the pump-plug the line and disassemble pump- remove debris and reassemble. Importantly, the problem is most likely a clog, diaphrams on these pumps seldom fail and then typically after setting a long time.

Gud luk. If it is clogged ur going to want to get ur tank cleaned and a filter BEFORE the pump.

Thanks... I'll give it a try.

How do I remove the fuel pump? Any tricks to it?

I don't know if you are having the same problem that I did removing the fuel pump but I didn't have enough room to turn a wrench on the front bolt and I could not get a socket on it. What I did was cut a wrench in half so that is was very short. Also, the pivot shaft in my old fuel pump worked it's way partially out towards the front and further blocked access to the front bolt. I couldn't see it properly and I had a hard time understanding what I was feeling with my fingers until I got it off.

Boswell, if this is on your 235 it's not that hard to change.

First, shut off the fuel, there should be a valve below the tank. If it's stock, should be a needle valve that screws in to shut the fuel off.

Next, disconnect both lines from the pump. Remember, when loosening or tightening tubing, use two wrenches. One on each side of the fitting, this keep you from twisting the tube or fitting.

After the lines are loose, you can attack the mounting bolts. Not the easiest, but it can be done with some wrench turning. Usually I will work on one bolt, then switch to the other. After both bolts are out partway, I will tap the pump to break the gasket seal. That will allow you to keep the pump pulled out from the block as you loosen the bolts, making it easier to turn the bolts.

I always figure that if I'm going to remove the pump, I just as well go ahead and replace it. Depends on what you can afford. You will need to either make of buy a new gasket. Gasket adhesive (not RTV) on both sides. The 216/235/261 fuel pump is almost idiot-proof to install. Put the lever in the hole, push it straight in, and put the bolts in. If you do get a new pump, you will need to transplant the pipe fittings, use teflon tape on them to seal.

Thanks for all the advice... I got a new pump and am going to install it this afternoon. I will let you know how it comes out.

Boswell

The new fuel pump installed just fine last night.
Truck still won't start, :mad: but it is getting fuel now.
Thanks to all for the advice.

Boswell

Three things make an engine run all things being equal. Air / Fuel / Spark. We assume you are getting fuel? To verify, take air cleaner off, look down the carb and pump the accelerator a few times, if you can see or smell fuel you have one of the three. I would think it is a spark thing? Check for spark by taking the coil wire off where it attaches to the dist cap. Have someone crank the engine or use a big screwdriver to press down the lever to the selinoid - hold the end of the coil wire near some metal on the engine it should spark over (1/4"). IF you are getting spark there, take off the dist cap and reset the points (if necessary) as we have previously posted. It should start.
Tim

A thought , We assume that it cranks over but does not fire correct? Check the position of the distributor. Maybe it got moved around. It should crank if the round grease cap on the side of the distributior is in the 0800 - 0900 position. THen after it starts slowly move one way or the other til it smooths out.
Tim

You may not have fuel to or through the carb yet.Have you tried a bottle cap-ful of fuel down the carb?
Verify that you have spark and are getting fuel down the carb,if not let us know,We will make this thing run.

Engine is cranking.

Fuel pump is pumping... I can see it in the fuel filter.

Sprayed starting fluid into carb a couple times... still nothing.

Re-set points a couple of times to be sure... might still be wrong with that one, who knows... but it fired up fine before.

Loosened distributor and adjusted back and forth like before... still nothing.

Spent rest of evening deciding which shotgun load is best to put this beast out of its misery :mad:

Boswell

Checked the points once again... they're good

Plugs are new, gapped properly and not fouled

Gas is flowing into carb

Got good spark at coil

Cranking over fine

Loosened dist... turned in 1/4" increments both ways

Still not firing :mad:

It ran fine since I did my first tune-up on it a week ago... now, nothing :confused: Looks like I'm walking home again tonight.

Boswell

Boswell,
you need to verify that you are getting spark at the plugs. I would lay an old plug on top of the valve cover and then take number one wire off the real plug and plug into the one on top. You should be able to see it jump the gap. You could have a cracked cap or rotor. Whatever you do, don't be pouring fuel into the carb from a large container or for that matter when it is turning over. If she backfires, it won't be pretty for you or the truck.

With all that you have done with the points, did you somehow loosen the machine screw and nut that holds the condenser wire? I had this trouble on a 216 one time. Hope I described this right, but it's possible to have the connection open (no contact) when it may seem to be okay.

This may be a silly question but,,,did you put the rotor back in the distributor? :confused:

Boswell,
Check this out - when you turn on the ignition switch do you see your guages move (fuel)? If not you have an ignition switch malfunction and your points are not getting spark for it to run.
To jump the switch and get this started and home - get aprox 2' of 14-16 guage wire with clips, one each end, and put one end on the positive side of the coil and the other to the positive side of the starter. Then get in and crank over, it should start if you have a bad switch. You also can crank under the hood with screwdriver. If it won't start, take off this wire as your points will burn.

Haven't been pouring fuel into carb... new pump is getting fuel there just fine.

Brand new spark plugs, properly gapped and not fouled... ran fine til it "ran out of gas" sputtered and died.

Rotor is on distributor... but thanks for checking just in case... coil wire is on cap as well.

Ignition switch moves guages just fine... amp meter swings into neg when I crank her over... no foot starter... updated sometime in the past... turned over and started right up just fine before... then began to sputter and cough and lose power driving it one day like no gas... finally died... gas getting there now.

I will check the condenser wire nut tonight...

Thanks for all the support,
Boswell

Bos --

Been some time since I looked at this post sorry about ur problem. Let me ask you this. Is it possible that you never had a fuel pump problem but instead a carb problem. If your carb float needle was clogged or your carb float somehow got stuck wouldn't that explain these symptoms? No gas getting to the intake. Just a thought.Good luk.

buzn, I believe he is getting fuel to the carb and into the intake from what I read in his posts.I am not sure he is getting spark to the plugs yet,spark from the coil wire yes.
I am kind of curious now if the distributor gear has possibly sheared the roll-pin on the end of the shaft???(rare,but possible)
.
Boswell, does the rotor turn when you crank the engine?

Yes, the rotor turns. I didn't replace the condensor when I replaced the points last weekend... the points really didn't need it either, but what the hey.

Boswell,
I went back and re-looked at all the posts on this subject. So it sputtered and died, like a fuel problem or carb problem.? (1).The line was not plugged. (2).You replaced the fuel pump. (3).And the carb is squirting fuel when you pump it. Re-set points. Timing we are not sure but if in ball park should run. What do the plugs look like now? Are they black, and wet? Or clean and lite color to tan?
Is the truck sitting flat, I'm asking because the gas tank fuel level may be tilted too far one way or another and can't get fuel? The I still think its a fuel delivery problem. Do you have another carb that you know is ok to try? Can anyone come to his aid out there in the west?
Tim

Bosell,
From your "Overheating Post". Loses power, overheats - Did you ever re set the valves? I think they are too tight. Read some of my orig posts. You can do the valves cold just add .002 thousands to the settings I gave you. (With cast iron block and head add .002)
Tim

Well how about an update? Many hands weighed in on this to help you out. Are you running yet?

Yes, I to am wondering how the patient is doing?

Its time to send out the dogs.
Tim

Probably fixed the thing and is driving off into the sunset heading for a cold one

I'm thinking he may have gotten tired of us and brought it to someone to "fixes it". I hesitate to say mechanic as there are so few anymore other than parts exchangers Either way I hope it was something "simple or cheap" and he is driving again. Was that an oxymoron? Or oxy? or Moron?
Tim :rolleyes:

Maybe he used the oxy and acetylene to help the truck go

Did he ever say how many sets of plugs he went through during his ordeal? I hope he was not still on the first set when he started crankin'. they gotta be toast.

Okay... so here's the update... I still have a lovely old paperweight :mad:

I needed to walk away for a couple of days... came back to it yesterday, rechecked everything I had gone over that I knew to do... still no go. I haven't attempted to adjust the valves cold yet... but it won't even pretend to fire right now, so I'm not sure that is it.

The plugs were new when I started this... they still look okay... but hell what do I know... I feel like I should be wearing a helmut and riding the small bus with the lift to work about now...

I didn't replace the condeser when I changed the points, so I thought I'd try that next.

Again, thanks for all the support.

Boswell

Glad ur back--

Seems the concensus is either a electrical or fuel delivery problem. After the condenser, I'd pull #1 Plug and wire as previously suggested. Get the helper to turn it over and determine if there is fire in the hole. If not- look hard at distributor and wiring. If arc at #1 plug --time to look at the carb. Gud luk but I'd do this first
so your not guessing which system is fouled up.

I re-read the posts and I am kind of thinking that you need to check the points and make sure they are set with a CLEAN feeler guage when the little cam in the center of the distributor has the lobe(bump) in the position to open the points.
Then with the points rubbing block on a flat part of the distributor cam and the points closed,you need to turn the key on and open the points by hand or a screwdriver.You should see them spark when you force them open.
Also make sure the rotor is in the distributor(sometimes we all can overlook the obvious. :o

Alotta crankin' with no barkin' means fouled plugs in addition to anything else haywire. Get a new set of cheap plugs to install. You do not need the platinum or premium brands at this point. :mad:

This is what I would do. Go back to your truck with a buddy in his truck. Hook up a chain and tow it home. On the way home pop it in gear a couple of times with the ignition on. I bet it will start.

At least you now have it home.

Good advice Tony, depending upon where it was parked in this country it would have been stripped by now.
Tim

Still isn't running... :confused: I am going to start a new post in the electrical bay... so be sure to tune in...