The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Newest pictures of my 48 Detroit Diesel 6400

Here are 4 new pictures of my engine installation in my truck. Click this link and then the next 3 pictures http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2724272330080251109JbMOHu

I have all of my engine accessories figured out and mounted. Also have new drive shafts made and installed.
Presently working on cleaning and regasketing my new Roadranger RTO-6610 transmission (to replace the non overdrive version currently installed).
The clutch linkage is almost done, just need to drill a few holes in the frame and install it.

Next on my list is making all my brake and fuel lines.
Also trying to find a company to custom make some air tanks for me for my air starter. I need one or two at about 8" diameter by 6 feet long, and a few at about 10" by 5 feet long. Then I will mount them and plumb everything.
Shortly after that I will have a running driving chassis.

Grigg

Wow Grigg, That is sweet work. I love the time you are putting into the fabrication. Your patience really shows, and the outcome is spectacular! I can only see the pictures for a second or two...guess cause I'm not a member of "rides webshots"? Anyway, clicking back and forth, I was able to see your awesome work.

Grigg looking good man. I would like to thank you for your build post. They have been a huge help on my prodject. I owe you big for my truck having directional control.

Thanks guys,
It's fun to work on, and the end of the tunnel doesn't seem so far away now.
I could not have gotten this far with out all of you guys to answer questions and provide suggestions.
I can't wait to drive it, perhaps this summer....
Grigg

That motor seems huge. I can't wait to see the final pictures. Good luck and keep moving forward!

That is really cool and you gotta love the sound of a Detroit!!!

Sean

That is some really nice work. I like the fact your engine swap isn't something you see or will hear everyday. Very cool.

It's too bad we live so far apart cause I'd be happy to build those tanks for you. Anyways... keep up the good work.

PaulyBuilt,
Is building air tanks your profession? I would like for my tanks to be certified, that's why I am looking for an air tank company to make them rather than do it myself.
Anyone ever had air tanks made by a reputable company?
Grigg

Try www.mantank.com or www.penway-inc.com or www.steelfabtanks.com

My company does business with all of them. Steel Fab seems to have the longest lead time, but best prices. Penway and Manchester are the two we primarily use thanks to their shorter lead times and superior service.

Looking good Grigg, are you going to do a cross country trip with it when done?

Thanks for the links for the tank manufacturers. I called a local one I found on the net today, but they are not as professional as I would like, more of a fab shop. They were talking about schedule 40 pipe with caps welded on, that's about 3/8" wall. much to heavy to carry around on a truck. Tanks of the same size and pressure rating from big trucks have about 1/8" or less wall, that's what I want, just enough to be safe.
I checked out the steel fab web site, it looks like they can do what I need. Now I just need to draw up an auto-cad drawing of the different tanks I need and get a quote from them and the others.

Yes, I will do some sort of round the country trip when done, the last one was so much fun I can't wait to do it again.
Grigg

Yeah Sch 40 is pretty heavy duty for air tanks. Sch 10 would be more like it. You can buy the true air tank ends that are a little different than standard caps, but they are a manufactured stock item nontheless. The bung holes for inlets/outlets and the drains are welded on and you've got yourself an air tank. They are pretty easy to do, which you could do yourself. But if you want to have them certified, then a company that's properly registered with the state has to build them. Sounds like your on the right track though. Air starters are so cool... I'm jealous.

air starters will scare the heck out of you if you happen to be asleep next to a truck when it starts causes fingernail tears in sleeper headliner. Haven't heard one in a few years.

I drove an old Autocar with an air start. The bad thing it had leaks and the company wouldn't fix then. So every morning I had to start the truck next to mine wait for it to build air and hook an air line between the two.

Hey Grigg if it's odd size tanks you are looking for and you have to go wrecking yard hunting I have seen the biggest veriety on Macks.

Hi Grigg, so tell me about those front brakes?!!

Grant,
I really need custom tanks to maximize the amount of air I can fit in the available space. If I did not need all that I can fit salvage tanks of non ideal dimensions would be fine.
The 8" X 6' and 10" X 5' tanks I need are not ones I have found on the many trucks I have been measuring. I now have several good contacts for custom made tanks, this weekend I will sketch them and send out for quotes.

Rick,
What would you like to know about my front brakes?
I swapped the entire front axle from a 94 Chevy 3500HD, less about 10" I took out of the center of the I-beam. That part looks better sitting in the corner of the shop than it did under the truck....

Grigg

O.K. Grigg, just stop it! Stop it right now! You're making us all look bad! :p

That is some of the most beautiful fabrication I've seen in a long time. Fabrication is all about having the right equipment, and it's obvious you do and know how to use it.

Keep up the photo site, if anybody loses ambition on their project, all they have to do is look at your pix. NICE JOB!

UPDATED 12/25/07 (Christmas)

Thought I would revive this thread from nearly a year ago, and give an update on my (slow moving) project.

As seen at the Winchester Show in September, and how it sits today:
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/63/463/0/12/6/2154012060080251109KzwnhX_th.jpg[/IMG]

Last year I was searching for air tanks for my air starter.
Just last week I finally got them, 5 custom made steel tanks, about 75 gallons total. Took about 6 months to order them (really difficult company) Then they made me wait 5 hours after I first drove 4 hours to get there to pick them up, I was quite [censored] after the first two hours, but that's another story in its self.
Glad to have the tanks finally...

Last year I was working on my then new RTO-6610 transmission to replace the non overdrive one in the truck.
All done cleaning it up now, but still need to paint and install it.

Last year I needed new drive shafts.
Had them made, painted and installed quite some time ago.
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/53/653/7/52/98/2806752980080251109xJDrPB_th.jpg[/IMG]

I had been looking for a new rectangular aluminum fuel tank from a Freightliner, and last January I found one (free in the dumpster). Seen here with a step I removed, and also shortened it 7" so it would fit between wheel and running board.
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/53/753/8/37/92/2333837920080251109dcTtBY_th.jpg[/IMG]

I have accumulated almost all the plumbing I need for brakes, fuel, and air. Mostly stainless steel tube, stainless braided flex lines, and some 1-1/4" Aeroquip hose and fittings for the air.

The air compressor, power steering pump, and AC compressor are mounted, and painted after this picture was taken.
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/59/159/2/72/33/2724272330080251109JbMOHu_th.jpg[/IMG]

Same as last year, I need to get all the plumbing done, then can start on the body work.

Grigg

I wish my project was moving as fast as yours! Good work!

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/dmckenzie/cf/cf_tag_tandem_sml.jpg

ever look for an old c.f. motorfreight truck in a junkyard? aluminum tanks plumbed with all necesary check valves and shut off valves.

Yes, I alreday have a complete air starter system I removed from a truck

Here is a typical air starter setup
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/24/25/9/87/27/2276987270080251109wTFOfn_th.jpg[/IMG]

The black tank is extra.
The aluminum tank is about 60 gallons, the relay valve is on the tank then the hose goes to the starter. The "push to start" valve can also be seen. This was from an IH COE tractor with an 8V71 Detroit.

I could not fit that one big tank and make it look good, so I had some made. I am glad I did, and I already have all the air starter related stuff, and all my plumbing for it.

Thanks,
Grigg

i honestly can't understand the air starter. i'm sure you know best, and the project is going better than i think i have ever seen one go. the thing is, while batteres are heavy, and the charging system has to be heavier with an electric start, in the event of a problem, a person could jump start their vehicle. jumper cables are sort of a pain, but, it's notmuch of a problem finding someone to jump atart a vehicle.

when i worked a c.f. several years ago, in the winter, te service truck prowled the parking lot constantly. the trucks eiter started instantly the first time, or, they were out of air, and had to be pumped up to try again.

like i said, i'm sure you know best, and it's your project and dream, and you are kicking a** to get it done. it's just that in this climate, i've had plenty of experiance with ingersol-rand, and it's never been during good weather.

Well Koolkar, you have some excelent points, and ones I have thought about. Here is my thought process:

Because of the way the frame tapers in at the front on the AD trucks the starter hit the frame, and would have required removing most all of the top flange for about 6" to get it to fit, not an option. The air starter fit because of the gear reduction off sets the air motor from centerline, and it can be bolted to the nose housing in many different positions, I was able to clock the starter to within about 1/2" of the block, and 3/4" or more of the frame.

I had heard rumors of a small gear reduction electric starter that "may" have worked, but no one had one around so I could see or try one, and they are over $500, then add shipping, and return shipping if it did not work.
I had seen first hand a few IR starters, and had a good idea it would fit. Then called around to get my hands on one, a local guy had a truck with the whole system which I removed and bought for not much money, although the starter turned out to be shot, it confirmed my theory, and I got my money back by turning it in as a core to a local air starter shop. Then found a rebuilt one on ebay for cheap.

Because my truck has a Roadranger it needs a little air to shift. That could have been handled with a small electric compressorm but I don't like the idea, noise, or possible short life and expense. An engine driven compressor was available for my engine, would provide air for transmission, the starter, and extra for tools and tires.

Because my starter is so much bigger than it needs to be it will spin it up very quick and at a fast rpm, and only take a second or less to start the engine (faster and more starts than a semi truck engine with the same starter and air available). 40 gallons would probably be enough, and I have 75. In the winter I may set the governor on the compressor for a higher pressure than in the summer. As a backup I have instaled a 10 speed hillside starter and plan to have a 20lb Co2 tank which is good for 3 or 4 refils of my entire system (75 gallons) from 0 to 150 psi.

I probably should have used an electric one if it fit, but the air will be fine, and different, which is another good thing, as I don't need to have a truck just like everyone else's truck....

Grigg

This is good stuff ! Grigg, You da Man! Can't wait to see this truck, when you're finished. Or better yet, Hear it run. You're close enough to me, where i'd make a special trip to check this "Bad Boy" out.

Thanks,
I can't wait to see it done either... But my job comes first for now, and money is the build speed governor. It will be a few years yet before it's done done. Perhaps only a few months before it runs and drives, hopefully for the show season coming up.

You are welcome to stop by anytime to take a look, only a few minutes off the interstate.

Grigg

i gotcha now. some air start trucks (old autocars)had a manual backup air tank with a simple ball valve for emergency starts. i figure you got plenty of onboard air, and i think 2 stroke detroits start alittle easier than 4 cycles during cold weather, but that sure ain't saying much. i also considered you are only turning 4 cylinders instead of the 8 the starter is intended for, so it ought to spin the entire truck, not just the starter. it's also good for scaring the neighbors cat away. i haveseen air starters on e.m.d.'s and i know they are usually tough as nails.

I do not think this is in Grigg's nature, but if you really wanted to create a conversation piece and show off, here is an idea:
You could install a pony motor to power an onboard compressor, so that way you would never run out of air..................I think this was the system they used on big caterpillars or did they use the pony motor to heat the head, can't remember.
John Gott

John,
I did think of that, but diusmissed it because of the extra weight and complexity. My backup will a Co2 tank with regulator.

Caterpillar, John Deer, Waukesha, and others who used pony motors used them as the actual starting motor with a bendix drive. The cooling systems between the large and small engines were shared, that helped warm the big one for easier starting.

Many of the very very large diesel engines from early on, and perhaps still today, use a second independent small engine to run an air compressor just as you describe. This air would either be used with an air starter, or often dirrectly injected into the engine cylinder through a deticated air starting valve, turning the engine over and starting it.

Grigg

A few years ago I had opporunity to visit the engine room of a tug boat. Two big Diesels to power the boat plus a couple more smaller ones, one of which drove an air compressor. This was maybe five years ago, and the occasion was the owner showing me his new installation as he had repowered a 50 or 60 year-old tug.

My knowledge of Diesels of any size is limited, but clearly in marine applications using smaller motors to support larger ones was still being done that recently. I'd say the smaller motors on the tug may have been similar in size to the small truck motors being discussed here.

Hey Grigg;
now it is all coming back to me on those pony motors. I have busy working on the Diamond T. I acquired (thanks to e-bay) a briggs and stratton model "N" with a lever start, a kellog compressor (from a friend) and I am working on getting a period tank for the air. his set up was nestled behind teh wrecker body and was used to air up tires. Once installed it is a tight fit, I think they used a lever start to lessen the chances of the operator wacking his arm into the wrecker frame. I did have a nice "score" today. I went to my local Valley Gases store and asked the counter guy how I could acquire an acetlyne bottle for my wrecker (for display purposes only) as I alreay have a 1942 daed oxeygen bottle. He asked "for display only" I said "yep" he said today was my luckiy day as he had a 1972 dated bottle that was going to the scrap yard. A few peenies later it was in my truck. The counter man told me that bottles have to get tested every ten years, if they do not have current date on them they will nit fill them. My other option was to lease a bottle for $55.00 p/year.

John

It is going to be impressive!!!actually it already is!

Just uploaded pictures of my 5 new air tanks for the air starter.
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/24/565/4/44/20/2783444200080251109UJJqEC_th.jpg[/IMG]
And the fittings and hose I will use to connect them all.
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/69/69/8/13/30/2373813300080251109kedyEF_th.jpg[/IMG]

Grigg

Finally got my fuel tank mounted today.
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/58/558/9/35/46/2107935460080251109FnQmbG_th.jpg[/IMG]

Had to modify the brackets a bunch to get them to bolt to the frame and be high enough off the ground/just under the flatbed.

I am thinking of having the aluminum tank soda blasted (baking soda) to give it a nice uniform and satin finish, I for sure don't want the tank polished, but I do want it to look nice and clean. Anyone seen aluminum after soda blasting, how does it look?

Then to protect the end of the tank at the tires (only 5.5" away) I was thinking of having the end up to just the other side of the weld coated with LineX, then mud and rocks won't bother it much. If I do that, should I then have the same done to the front end, or will it look better only being black and rubbery where it counts, right at the tires?

Check out the side saddle arrangement, so the lady's can drive :confused:
[IMG]http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/62/562/5/55/41/2426555410080251109DBqKch_th.jpg[/IMG]

Grigg

It's lookin' good Grigg.

Bill

Have you thought about getting one of those quilted strap on covers for the front of the fuel tank, like the ones you see on some of the really tricked out Semis.

For about 3 seconds, I don't find them very attractive, kind of hokey. Seems you could have problems with dirt and salt getting in between it and the aluminum tank and making it pretty nasty under there.

I am sure that LineX is the way to go on at lest one end, just can't decide on the front end or not?

Congrats on the great looking truck Grigg. I've got that same fuel tank on one of my Sterling work trucks. The tank on my truck is mounted in the drivers side and the front of the tank is about 8 inches behind the rear of the front tire. The lower fender does protect is some. I got the truck new in 2005 and the only thing I have ever used on the tank to keep it looking good is the acid wash that you get at the truck washes and truck stops. Leaves tank with a nice satin finish. The only issue I've ever had is once it didn't get rinsed with enough water and left some streaks after things dried out. Don

Thanks Don,

My tank is also from a 2005. I did have to shorten it 7" to fit between wheels and cab, so what was 80 gallons, is now almost 75.

The tank on your truck, can you inspect a few things for me?
the straps that hold it on, what is the detail of washers and nuts on the end of the T-bolt? I have a SAE flat washer, and a regular nut. From the factory, was there a lock washer, or a second nut, or?
The other end of the strap, with the pin, is there a flat washer on both ends of the pin, or just the end with the cotter pin, or the head end, or no washers?
The fittings for the fuel suction and return, I have one 3/8" npt port, and one 1/2" npt port, which is used for suction, and which for return?

Another question, at what fuel level does it slosh around and suck air causing problems, nearly empty, or 1/4 full, or?

Thanks,
Grigg

I can't say that I've ever allowed the trucks fuel to run low enough to suck air. One of the things about this truck that I don't like is how much the fuel gauge moves around while driving the truck. The lowest that I have ever had the tank is just below the 1/4 line. When I stopped and put fuel in it held 62 gallons. I didn't have any problems that day but I was starting to sweat things a bit because the gauge was bouncing off empty.
We just got some snow here yesterday so give me a couple days for things to melt off and stop dripping and I'll crawl underneath and check out the straps and hardware. Don