The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Valve Lash and Timing ?

From the best I can tell my head (3836848) was used on 235s from '54 tah '62 and my block (F428J) was made '58/'59?. I set the ext. valves at .006 and int. at .016. Before I did this the engine ran fair but lots of valve clicking some of the adjustment screws were real open. Now no more clicking but the engine does not run as good as before the adjustment. I adjusted them as per my 1954 Shop manual. I guess the question is on later engines is the lash values different than 1954?
Timing question on a '58/'59? engine. Do I set timing at arrow tah ball in bell houseing? I haven't even looked at this yet. I usually just set timing by ear, engine smoothness, sound at tail pipe and ping.
Thanks for any help!
Adios, Kip

Set timing by the ball on the flywheel and the pointer on the bellhousing (starter side of the engine). Whenever someonew tells me they can set it "by ear", I bet them a beer and I always win.

Set the timing (as described in the Shop or Operator's manual) and see if that makes a difference.

Good luck,

Tim

Thanks Tim,
I'll wrestle with it.
What about the valve lash question........anybody?
Adios, Kip

Sure you got solid lifters? The adjustments for solids changed over the years. I'll have to look in my book for the '59 adjustment with solids. You can set timing when ball and pointer line up, but thats at 0* TDC. I always bumped it up to about 5 or 10* and saw how it ran like that.

good luck

chip

Rev.,
I don't know the difference between solid and nonsolid lifters. They "look" like the ones in my '54 looking at them at the head. We're talking the lifting rods right?
Adios, Kip

Not the lifting rods, Kip. Those are the push rods. The lifters are not visible unless you pull off the side cover.

A solid lifter is just what it says, no give to it at all. A hydraulic lifter fills with oil after start up.

The adjustment procedure is different for each...

Always give the exhaust valves the most clearance. You may have stated it wrong,but remember the intake the smallest and the exhaust to largest clearances.

kip,
if I am not mistaken,the pushrods used with hydraulic lifters are hollow and they have holes in the ends to allow the oil to flow through. The pusrods used with solid lifters do not have the holes. The top of a hydraulic lifter reveals a cup shaped disc held inside the lifter bore by a small snapring. On the other hand the solid lifter has a concave top that is mounted on top of the lifter body.

Ok I got the '54 Shop Manual and I know for sure which are exhaust and which are intake. And I know that the block and head is a newer than '54 235. I also *think*? this is a car engine no grey anywhere. And I'm pretty sure that it has solid lifters. You come up with anything on the lash Rev.....anybody?
Adios, Kip

Patrick's sells solid and hydraulic lifters. Their pushrods are sold only by length (11 1/4" and 10 9/16") and not by whether their for solid or hydraulic lifters. I have the 11 1/4" hole-less pushrods for my 1961 261 which will have hydraulic lifters. Any problems with this? Are the 10 9/16" pushrods hollow?

I don't know if this is much help, but I'm in the same boat with my 54. I noticed that I can push down on my rockers against the pushrods approx 1/16 to 1/4 inch telling me that I've got hydrolic lifters. I haven't had a chance to try it yet but there is a good description in the stovebolt.com faq page scroll down to how do I? Seems pretty detailed. I'm about to do it mysef because I'm supposed to have solid lifters. carnut.com has some good spec sheets for various 235 cars and that should get you close.

I think .006 might be too tight.
I would go with .008 I .014E. The valves on a 235 will tend to get tighter when using unleaded gasoline as the valve seats wear, so keep them a bit on the loose side.
Also make sure the oil is up to a stable temperature before you adjust, that means at least 15 minutes of road driving.
I just adjusted the valves on my BMW, they are 0.012 intake and exhaust, but it's an overhead cam. They are a pita, since they use cam style adjusters instead of screws, and you have to use the starter to rotate the engine.

My 1955 book says valve lash 0.006 Inlet (hot) and 0.013 Exhaust (hot) .
The '59 spec may be a little different .
A special grind will be different , refer to the cam grinders spec sheet.

Kip,
there is no harm in being a few thou too loose on the adjustment but there is on the tighter side. What I have seen for the early passenger car engine is .008 intake and .012 exhaust. I usually need a gauge either side of the setting to verify my settings.

I used the method, posted on the tech tip section here on stovebolt. Truck sounds good and fires up right now.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/valveadjustment.htmction.

OOPS - TRY THIS
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/valveadjustment.htm

Correction from 1st post. Intake at .006" HOT and Exhaust at .016" Hot. That's what I meant to say but I've been smelling too much gasoline.
Buck I'm headed over to the link right now, Thanks!
Adios, Kip

Solid lifter valve settings, if that is what you have are dependent upon a number of factors: How hot you run your engine ie what thermostat, rear gear, stock cam or aftermarket, how much wear on the rocker arms? Go slow and decide how you will be using your truck.Check timing after setting valves. The 59 engine was drilled for either solids or hyd. As you know the I6 engines are generally a low rpm engine therefor if you run a tighter valve setting it will push up the rpm range and it may not run as good as it did with a looser setting on intake and exh. If it has an aftermarket cam check the cam card hot settings and adjust from there wider or tighter. From experience if an engine is new the .006 for the intatke is too tight for a 59 235. Higher mileage engines may tolerate the .006. You will get better gas mileage, easier starting and run cooler with a looser setting such as .009 to .011 on the intakes. Make sure you open up the exhaust setting an equal amount setting somewhere between .011 to .016. You want a little valve noise, when its fully hot, but not to the point where you think you will break a rocker arm. Wider exhaust settings will allow the valve more time on the seat and transfer heat better an the engine will run cooler. An excellent web site is www.howardscams.net

235s don't oil thru the pushrods. All the 55-later engines use the longer tubular pushrods, regardless of lifter. Most 235 engines '58-'62 had hyd lifters, esp engines in sedans. Still have to look up the solid lifter specs for a 58 engine. Hydraulic adjustment is 1/4-1/2 turn past zero lash.

The 848 head was '56-62.

This concludes today's sermon.

Ok, I got the ball and arrow lined up (kinda) and the idle at 550rpms (kinda) and the air/gas? screw at 1 and a half turns on a Roch Monojet (not a "B"). I have a good Roch "B" which I do understand (beleive it or not) that I might end up putting on there. I just got this truck 5/3.
Here's the pictures I posted in the Lounge. Pix do show engine and carb.

http://members.toast.net/tcts79903/chev.jpg

Thanks Amigos!
Adios, Kip

ANY CHANCE OF POSTING A PICTURE OF THE THROTTLE LINKAGE SIDE OF THE CARB?

Aw CRUD!!! Is that how it's done?



Please help out an old DORF guy. I want to help my son time his '62 today, running a 235, but what kind of a timing system is a ball on the flywheel??? I just got him a timing light. Can we use it, or is this just some visual thing we have to try?

:confused:

Timing tab is not on crank pulley. 235 timing marks are built into bellhousing and flywheel. There is a window in the bellhousing above starter with a little steel pointer in the center. There is a steel 'ball' about the size of a BB set into the flywheel. The ball goes around and around on flywheel. The ball and pointer line up when the #1/#6 crank throws are at TDC. Shoot window with timing gun, and ball will line up with pointer if engine fires right at TDC. Easier with a dial-back timing light.

There is a ball embedded on the foward face of the flywheel and you can see it through the round opening in the bellhousing just above the starter (there is a pointer in the round opening). Clamp your timing light to the number one plug (or number one plug wire) and point the strobe light at the pointer on the bell housing. Adjust the distributor until the ball lines up with pointer (at 500-750 rpm, depending on your engine, transmission, and carburetion). When setting the timing, you should also disconnect the vacuum line from the intake to the vacuum advance on the distributor (and plug/seal the line, so there is no vacuum leak at the intake side).

Oh yeah, set your points/dwell before setting the timing.

Regarding valve lash adjustments, the factory manuals state that you should bring the engine to operating temperature and then run for and additional 30 minutes before setting the valve lash.

All truck engines (235/261) had mechanical lifters. Some truck engines might have been converted to hydraulic lifters. Many automobile engines have been put into trucks and most post-1953 car engines had hydraulic lifters (but, a car engine might have been converted to mechanical lifters).

I set the valve lash on both my 1954 235 and 1960 261 to 0.006" intake and 0.016" exhaust (hot engine). GMs manuals for the same year give different lash settings (also, the larger trucks had wider lash settings: 0.008" intake up to 0.020" exhaust).

Tim

Thanks Amigos, Yeah I get all excited and start shot gunnin backwards and half a$$. My Shop Manual is all beat to H E Double Q from all the use over the years. That's why I ask some pretty stupid questions. I'll set the points (.016)and keep twistin and adjustin till we get it.
Adios, Kip

Thank you sir!

This is a new way of doing timing, for me. We'll try it out tonight.

Hey Tim,

On my old DORFs I used to just crank up the timing until they would ping, and then back it off a little. These were older, worn Y-block engines mostly. The increase in performance was noticeable. I was going to try it on my son's 235. Now you make me wonder....

Have you ever tried this method with a 235? My son's engine does not have much power climbing hills (engine was badly abused before we bought the truck). We haven't had a chance to check the compression yet, so that could be a big part of the lack of power.

I always thought the more advance the better! Has anyone else experimented like this?

JunkYardFrog,

Your technique might work. Check it out with a timing light. Most of my beers were won from people who would set the timing by adjusting for the fastest idle.

Tim

Okay Tim,

Except we haven't been able to spot the little ball on the flywheel yet.



Also, once we do find the little ball, what does that tell us? Does lining up the ball with the pointer mean it's firing at TDC? That doesn't sound like a good way to time anything. How can you tell how much advance you are dialing in? We just have a plain old timing light.

The ball is at 5 btdc, and there is a tdc mark somwhere on there.

Before you start twisting the dist to try and make it run better. I would sugguest you set the octane selector to "0". Then proceede. When you are done and re-tightened the screw then reset the octane selector back to where it was (advanced). Each mark is 2 degrees most are set and bolted down between 4-8.

Senor Frog,
Yah might want tah get like a 1/2" brush with some kerosine and while the truck is running stick the kerosine damp brush in the window (hole) and clean up that flywheel area to make the ball a little more noticable. I will try and get my engine tuned to the ball but if I have tah advance a little or retard a little tah get it running where I want it then so be it but I will at least use the ball as a refernce. I still need tah go back and loosen the valves a little and I think I'll go in there and put a Roch B on it first. It's startin to hit a hundred here so I'm startin to loose my spunk. Only toy work I did today was put a new tire on the KZP.
Adios, Kip

JunkYardFrog,

I rotate the engine by hand and when I find the ball I clean it and then paint it with white enamel paint.

Kip, I'm waiting for it to reach 70 for a few days so I can start painting again.

Tim