The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Upgrade steering and brakes on 53 3100 with 235

My '53 bolt has a NOS steering box and huck brakes. There is about 3" of play in the wheel and it is a dog to stop unless you really gear down--a challenge even for me--the old truck user. So, a mechanic friend of mine suggested we put in a power steering coversion and change to disc brakes all around. It sounds good to me, but I wonder what the Bolters think. It HAS to be easier to drive, 'cuz my wife drives it, loves to shift, but finds the flakey steering to be a problem and never really gets it going fast enough to realize that it is a dog to slow down over forty. Any thoughts?

How much $$$$ and time are you willing to spend. You could really improve the steering with an independent suspension up front. That would improve your steering and give you front disc brakes.

I'm interested in the answer to this question, too...hope you don't mind me jumphing into your thread, Shmoo. I'm especially interested in the disc brake conversion. Kits are available but they say you have to drill things out which scares me. How much would this conversion cost in a shop?

NOS steering box and 3" of play in the wheel?
When did you install the NOS box, or do you really mean that it is the "original" steering box?
First thing to do is get a shop manual and diagnose the problem. Your box may need a rebuild or an adjustment. Check tie rod ends, king pins etc.

check out classicperform.com, they have powersteering and disc brake. upgrades from useing you straight axle all the way to mustang 2 ifs kits

What Ghostrider said: Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Let's address Shmoo's problem first. This mechanic friend of yours. Did he suggest these changes after thoroughly and competently checking your steering, brake and suspension components? The world is overrun with guys who call themselves mechanics, but who are in fact computer-screen readers and parts replacers. I haven't seen your truck or the way you load it or, for that matter, Philadelphia. Tell me, do you regularly load to maximum legal weight? Beyond, even, because no-one checks pickup trucks? Are there many rough, potholed logging roads in Philadelphia? How about long, steep mountain grades, steeper than 6% and longer than, say, a mile? Do you race your truck on these roads? If the answer to ALL these questions is yes, then I, myself, would be looking at improvements like the ones your mechanic friend has suggested. IF, that is, I had thoroughly inspected and properly adjusted my existing components, and found too many them to be hopelessly in need of an overhaul, IF I had the parts on hand at a reasonable price to change my truck from its original specifications, and IF I was not the mother of all truck drivers, who knows that these trucks were designed to be lovingly maintained forever at an astonishingly low cost, and that what costs more is poor maintenance.

Whew. That might be the longest sentence I have ever written. Here's what it means: Find the problems in your existing systems and fix them. Take it to a reputable shop if you have to. Get a manual. These trucks are stone simple. Familiarize yourself with your grease gun and the locations of ALL the lubrication points on your truck. Once everything is working as it should, then is the time to evaluate your truck's performance, and not before. Look at this:
[img]http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/28/29/4/65/27/2090465270096215731aXKRnL_th.jpg[/img]
Okay, no. That's a gag pic. Look at this instead:
[img]http://thumb11.webshots.net/t/53/753/1/87/18/2078187180096215731SvWDHj_th.jpg[/img]
Click on this thumbnail for a closer look. There's nothing phony about this picture. 3,000 lbs. of timber headed down a mountain road, stopped not for a rest, but for a photo opportunity. Everything on this truck is original equipment except for the wheels and tires, and now the mirrors. It all works just fine, and handles like a very good truck, which is precisely what it is. It is not a sporty car, and I do not race it. Well, not much. But you CAN bet everything under there is working as it should.

Sarah, I think your truck needs no further changes. Enlist the help of your FIL. Even let him test-drive it if he can come up with a good reason. Yes. I am taking back what I said before, within limits. He still needs his own truck.

Shmoo,

Unless you are really interested in converting your front-end (steering and brakes), I agree with Ghostrider and hotshoe36: (1) is your steering box really NOS; and, have you tried to adjust your steering box and steering linkages (if they are adjustable)?

A tight original front-end can feel smooth and safe, even at "highway speeds" (55-65 mph, if you have a 3.90 or 3.55 rear-end).

If you cannot tighten up the front-end, then converting or repairing are your choices. If you cannot do the front-end repairs, you are at the mercy of the knowledge, experience, and skills of your mechanic. A mechanic who has never worked on vintage front end will of course steer you (sorry for the pun) towards modernization.

If you choose to modernize your front-end, and you will not be doing the work yourself, make sure you are paying someone who has done this type of job at least a few times.

Tim

Might as well toss in my $.02! First of all there are a couple questions that must be addressed before you start making major mods to your trucks steering and front suspension.

1. Are you under the impression that power steering will make your truck "drive" better or make it "steer easier?" Driveability and not having to fight to keep it between the white lines can be corrected, in many cases by adjustment and replacement of worn components such as kingpins, tie rod ends, sloppy drag links, and tweaking the box back to specs. Costs for completeing these repairs are relatively reasonable and once you've made them you're going to be able to enjoy driving your machine.

2. Are you under the impression that adding power steering is a magic bullet and will cure all your problems? If you are, think again! Most of the kits available for conversion are expensive, contain about 75% of the components to actually get it working and don't address the remainder of the worn components that effect driveability. The stock 1 groove harmonic balancer places limitations on adding belt driving accessories. I'm not aware of a "kit" that gets you up and running without additional components and some creative engineering.

3. Is Power steering better than manual steering? Granted, it makes low speed turns easier but there are trade-offs. I personally don't like the outboard GM mounts that tack the box on the very front of the 50 year old frame between the spring mounts. Maybe I'm overly cautious but it just doesn't appeal to me! The Toyota box conversion seems like a more viable alternative if you decide to go with P/S. I've used it on other straight axle conversions and have found it works like a charm. However, I'm not aware of any vendor who offers the full kit for our vintage of trucks.

4. Are you under the impression that straight axles are somehow inferior to IFS? That dropping in a "clip" is easy, cheap, or even necessary? Granted, having a nice cushy ride, factory discs and a rack steering setup appeals to many but once again, it's not something that everyone needs or even wants and if it isn't done correctly will create it's own set of major problems. The straight axle is simple, bulletproof, can support front discs, and when in good repair, will offer driveability that is as good as any IFS. However, it will always give you a harsher ride quality than an IFS. I consider it a small price to pay compared to IFS conversion. And afterall, it's a truck!!

Oh, and by the way.....that semi that just passed you doing 85 mph hauling 80,000 pounds is more than likely running a straight axle. I wonder why?

Dave

Thanks for the great reply--everbody! God bless the 'Bolt.

The drag link, kingpins, etc. have all been replaced during the recent resto. I think you hit it on the head that the box needs adjusting. Good advice on the disc brakes, too. I really do not want to change very much, but it has to ride safer than it seems right now.

Again thanks for that detailed great reply. I like that it is a truck! Truck good.

Hey Shmoo, I thought you guys went extinct in the 50’s? I caught one of those lovable little creatures back in the 50’s, stuck a set of smokin’ slicks on him while he sat for his portrait to be painted on my front fender, I nick named my ride the “Smokin’ Shmoo” cuz she was an all white ‘56.
About your ride, I've been known to have a thing or two to say so here goes my composition! I have a ’50, 3600 all original with Huck brakes completely rebuilt, she stops just fine from highway speeds and you can lock up the brakes if you stand on it really hard, taint power brakes you know.
The front end is all stock, completely rebuilt except for one component, the steering box, which was just adjusted with an electronic fish scale, (with no tight spots) and she handles just fine and I occasionally take her up to 55mph on the toll way. I get a little road wander, (read tiny bit) on the two lane black top because of the basic design of the suspension and the new 7.00x15, 6ply bias tires, but that’s to be expected from a truck of this era. She runs straight and true on the four lane.
Have you ever notice in the old movies, the driver cranking the wheel back and forth while driving straight down the road? That’s called driving, ya had to work at it back in the day!
Rebuild and properly adjust/align your front end and you can eliminate 95% of your problems. For the other 5% you will need to put a Mustang front end under her, tilt wheel and radials. The guys here can give ya tons of good advice about getting it right if you want to work with the original suspension.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

lovable creature

A 53 3100 has Bendix brakes. Like the guys say if everything is is good shape & working correctly these trucks drive & stop reasonably well.

I suspect this vehicle is sporting an older rear, although it is quite strong. It is outfitted with Huck brakes; we found that out early on in the resto process.