The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk NOT CHEVY, but Inline-6 question: What would u do?

Hope this doesn't anger anyone, but I thought it might be generally applicable to stovebolts as well.

Got a 1969 fire truck with a WAUKESHA F817G gas straight six in it. It's sorta like a 216, just about 20 times larger. Bought it with Water in the oil, no power, and leaking out the rear seal.

The Shop tested compression, 135 to 150 across - nothing bad there. Said engine ran smooth.

Took pan off. Crack in #1 cylinder sleeve (This engine comes from the factory with sleeves). So THAT's where the water got in. #2 piston skirt broken.

Now the BAD news: They say the bottom end is so rusty, I'll need a NEW CAMSHAFT. When I pressed him on this, he said he hadn't personally looked at it, so he wasn't dead certain it was necessary. I haven't seen it yet either.

This truck sat a lot more than it drove (previous two owners used as a parade truck). So I understand once water got in, how it would rust up. Not many miles on it, 20 thousand I think. Babied when in service. Very Beefy engine.

Pulling the engine obviously is a huge expense. I'm gonna put less than 1000 miles /year on it. Not much heavy duty, though I'll still pump it a few times a year, but not drastic. I WILL own this truck for many years.

One friend says Cam is critical, controls engine breathing, you don't want to mess with it. Replace it now so you don't have to replace it later.

Another says heck, you're not taking it to fires any more. Fix the piston and sleeve, put new oil in it, and run it. Maybe just change the oil twice as often as you otherwise would. If you didn't already know, you wouldn't ever know. It will be fine.

So , , , WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

-Michael

I'm with Joe, I like to talk about anything but the bottom line is trying to help another guy out or get the help I need.
Personally I think you already answered the cam problem when you stated "IT RAN SMOOTH"... if the cam was bad it wouldn't run smooth. I'd just fix the sleeve and piston and enjoy it.

Mike,

Like you and the others said. Fix the sleeve and the the piston. Run it.

Can you even find new bearings for this engine? Or is it babbit? You might have to pay an arm and a leg for a new cam in good shape. Cam is critical, but I suspect this one works adequate.

Old tractor restorers... pull some rusty thing out of a field that's had an open exhaust for 50 years. Engine rusted shut. They'll spend 2 years getting that engine busted free (slowly just a little movement twice a week). Once free, hone the cylinders and valves a little then put it back together. Yah it's got next to no compression but it'll run. Sand blast the whole thing, put nice paint on it, and sell it for 10,000 to some shmuck that don't know better.

If there is rust in there (how would he know?) it will affect bearings and hard surfaces, and they will wear faster. Put it together and work it. You'll know in a year.

Oh, and post some pictures in one the forums of the 6 cylinder beast ...

As usual, you guys are the greatest! You've given me confidence to go with what my gut said to do. I just can't imagine so much rust that it would justify a whole new cam.

Yeah, these huge Waukesha engines are a trip. 5 3/4 x 6 inch bore and stroke, slightly larger than either of my beloved stovebolts. Two sets of ignition (that's 12 - count 'em - 12 plugs!), tied to a Spicer 6000 5-speed tranny that's as big as a 235 block. All and all, though, a straight six is a straight six. If you (sorta) understand one, you understand 'em all.

Needless to say, after futzing around with these beasts, it is an absolute pleasure to return to my dear Rosie, the 44 Chevy fire truck, which will soon have the engine pulled for rebuilding, and lots of other stuff! I'll be posting on THAT later . . .

In the mean time, I'll dig up some photos of the Waukesha Monster to post . . .

Thanks, as always, for the wisdom!!!

-Michael

Once the engine is pulled and cleaned up, set the cam up on a set of V-blocks and use a dial indicator to check for equal lift on all lobes. If there are serious rust pits anywhere, you might need to get the lobes reground, but a good industrial-engine machine shop could probably handle that chore. I know of a very good shop in Nashville, Tennessee that has a cam grinder, and an operator who knows what he's doing. Drop me a PM or an email if I can help out!
Jerry

Did a little quick math and rounded off the numbers but that comes to almost 150 cubic inches per cylinder or nearly 900 cubes total---now THAT'S an engine.

I calculated 935 cu in.
Mike you got to get us some pictures of this beast.
Good luck with it!

Boy, you guys too smart. In fact, you've put the lie to my claim - the bore is actually 5 3/8ths, NOT 5 3/4ths. I misstated. 817 cu. inches, thus the name of the engine, the F817G. Same engine used to be called the Waukesha 145GZ, the largest in a line of 4 huge straight sixes in the 140 - 145 series. Someone told me the "F" in the new name stood for Fire Service, as many of these engines found their way into fire engines. Same person told me the "G" stood for Gas, though I've never seen an F817 Diesel. FWD's Seagrave company (still exists, made most of the fire trucks that got toasted in NY on 9-11) put a lot of these Waukeshas in their trucks (like this one of mine). I also have the same engine in a Young Fire truck, made on a Madsen bus chassis.

These engines were used A LOT for Generators and Pumps, usually running on Natural Gas, Propane, or whatever, and usually only up to 1800 rpm. You can still find plenty of THOSE out there.

Funny thing is, my buddy has a 1921 American LaFrance fire engine, with a six cylinder, and his Pistons are TWICE AS LARGE as mine. (I know, "size doesn't matter). But his were never meant to go faster than about 900 rpm. I think those engines were all torque.

OK, I'm done rambling (for now). I'll work on getting photos.

-Michael

This is definately good reading! I like the fact that so many out there are willing to help someone no matter what inline they have. GREAT site! I saw a firetruck a few years back with a Seagrave V-12 with 2 four barrels on it. It put out 600hp with MEGA torque. Just curious, does anyone know what the displacement might be since these type of monsters are being talked about. Put one of those in a one ton dually and watch the gas gauge drop like lead from full to empty just starting it up. Might make a Monster Truck motor? Hmmmmm! LOL H.

Not sure what kind of filter you're running but if there's rust in the motor, I'd change the oil and filter often and run the motor at least once a month up to operating temperature. Hope everything works out for the best.