The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Reply from Chevy Duty(Classic Parts)

Hi Alvin

I talked to you on Friday about the inner to outer cowl panel. I grabbed one of our panels and took it out back where we have 3 47-54 trucks and fitted it up to the one we have out back that doesn't have the fenders on it. It did fit up to the cab with the correct curves the only problem I see is that the hole is a little bigger on panel. I also talked to my two parts managers and they said we haven't had any problems with these panels, and we have been selling these for 15 years.


Adam

Classic Parts of America
1 Chevy Duty Drive
Kansas City, MO 64150
Adam, first thanks for getting back to me on my situation. I to have examined the new outer piece and the inner to outer piece very carefully as well as re-examined my old one. The "biggest" problem looks to be the actual curve of the new piece. Can it be overcome, yes I suppose so if you cut it and beat it enough but that is not what you are suppose to have to do to a new repo piece!!
As for your two parts guys I can not say they have not received any complaints but I find it very hard to believe. Ask them how many testimonials they want and I'll round them up. I have been hearing of this problem, mainly with inner to outer panel, for years. I have owned AD design trucks in the past but never had a cowling panel problem with them.

When speaking with you I mentioned you guys should read a couple of the recent post on hte Stovebolt.com forums. I mentioned this after talking to you and got an immediate response about the same problem. I do not know their vendors but a lot of times they will tell who they got them from and the "old" Chevy Duty sure came up its share. I do know others have had the same problem, for example Truck/Car Shop out of California, and I would imagine most all of these panels come from the same place originally.
I will see if I can get some of them to give you a call. What is your extension #.

As for checking the trucks you have on hand......it is easy to look an see what appears to be the same. I did when I open your package but on CLOSE examination you will see the difference. You mentioned a difference in the size of the hole, why hasn't someone fixed the problem? It causes the restorer's problems. I promise, if your on hand is like mine you can lay them in the floor and see a big difference in the curve of it which is the biggest problem in my experience. So, I ask you and your parts guys, should we have to beat, bang and cut them to make them fit. I hardley think so.
If you remember I agreed to send my original back with the one you sent me. I to have examine TWO trucks, same as mine, that are only 15 miles from me. Same situation if they had to use your inner to outer panel.
So, please try one more thing. Try your inner to outer panel with your outer panel. I bet they don't match. If they do then I have got a bad one....nevertheless I do not want an inner to outer panel with the hole a mile to big.
Summary:
1.) I do NOT, and will not, use the inner to outer panel you sent me. Therefore I request an RGA to send it back.
2, Do you want my original to use to correct the problem? I will need assurance I get it back if it is not used.
3. I still cannot believe no one has had problems.....unless the problems are that folks felt it useless to even try get it fixed.

Let me know which way this is to be handle.
respectfully
Alvin Parris

Bolters, I put a topic/thread in the Paint and Body forum last Friday about this. Please go back and read them. If we want to help ourselves and the bolters of the future we need to all respond to this and get the inner to outer panel siutation fixed once and for all. Please contact Adam at Adam@classicparts.com and let them hear of first hand experiences. We can make a difference.

Having used an inner to outer panel from CD/CP among others when I was restoring my cab I can say that every panel had to be worked a little to obtain the best fit. These trucks were not made using computer controlled equipment and cannot be expected to be the same from truck to truck but they are close. If you are looking for panels that fit your truck exactly I think you will be dissappointed in every supplier. I recall having to section and reweld the right side inner to outer panel make it fit my application. Goes with the territory I afraid. I will give a thumbs up to Classic Parts and most of the other suppliers for even being there to provide needed parts for our hobby. Sounds like CP is doing all they can for you.

Yes, this is a very tricky area. If the inner panel has ever been worked on then that part of the curve is probably not original. For strict 100 % restorations, you will notice that the notches in the inner to outer that fit over the groove contours of the inner, are much wider than the originals. This is to allow some slack for fitment.

I think that we are luck to have these panels available.

I agree with the rest of these guys Alvin, the retailer doesn't make the patch panels, and the fit will vary with every truck - I can't imagine expecting to use sheet matel patch panels without having to do some metal working as the fit and finish on these ol rigs was crummy right from the factory, they were the cheapest of consumer goods, not precision instruments

I'd suggest that if you don't think the panel is useable, send it back for a refund and try someone/something else, Classic Parts can't "fix" the part

Bill

Hello all,

I haven't replaced my inner cowl panel yet, but I would expect the replacement part to have the correct size holes and be as close as possible to the original as possible.

We depend on our supplers to deliver accurate replacement part. Everybodys idea of close is open for discussion, but incorrect hole size is something that shouldn't happen. I haven't seen the part, but if it is noticably larger then it needs to be addressed.

I remember a discussion thread earlier that was talking about metric threads on a replacement gas tank. What gives with that, Chevy Duty should either inform their customers of the thread change or have their supplier correct the problem.

The only way our suppliers know there are issue are if we inform them.

Yes we are drive trucks that are 50 years old, but that doesn't mean we need to settle for part that aren't correct. Sure allowances need to be made, but we also need to help are supplies identify areas for potential improvements.

Just my two cents.

Amazing replies!

Every patch panel I've seen from any supplier needs work to fit but just because none of them fit right doesn't mean we should ignore and accept without voicing the issues with the supplier. Thanks to Alvin for trying to help me as well as others who don't even want to be helped.

Adam is trying to deceive Alvin by not coming clean. You guys are telling Alvin the facts that none of the panels fit right and that he will have to do some work on them. They will never be corrected to fit right if everyone just grins and bears it. How can it be possible for Adam to not know this? Why doesn't Adam just tell the truth? Neither Jim Carter or Patrick will avoid honesty like that. Additionally I would like to point out that it is unprofessional for Adam to ignore Alvin's specific summary statements / questions. Alvin asked for a return authorization number and did not receive one. On the other hand I have to commend him for at least saying "Hi Alvin" and using complete sentences. I have never been treated that good by them.

Now, if you guys defending chevy-duty were treated like Alvin was, would you really be satisfied and defending their errors here?

Basically, patch panels for vehicles mfg in the '30s, '40s, & '50s AREN'T going to fit perfect 9 times out of 10, and that fact doesn't lie solely with the panels themselves. If you're expecting that, you will be let down. They're not meant to be installed like a "bolt-on" part, the reasoning of which has already been stated above. CPA, as well as many other reputable companies, do not make their own sheetmetal parts. Word of mouth will tell you which companies offer the better panels, and from my experience, CPA has good stuff.

If you're inexperienced with bodywork, namely sheetmetal, patch panels should be the last thing you attempt to get experienced with right off the bat. However, if you are experienced, then I honestly don't believe this post would even exist.

I think the point some of you are missing is that we as truck enthusiasts pay a lot of money for parts that are usually very poor quality. If Alvin got a great deal on his part, I'm sure he would not be complaining, but when we pay so much for something, it SHOULD be good quality. I will NEVER restore an AD truck again because quality parts are impossible to find (besides pricey originals) 85% of the parts I have bought for the 49 are JUNK! It just sickens me every time I open up a box from a vendor and find something not right. I've sent so many junk parts back it's pityful. Only one time did they admit that other people were having problems. Every other time, it was the standard "well, we haven't had anyone else with this problem" And the whole time I know they are telling me a lie, because I've done my homework- checking with other people on here. It's kind of hard to have quality control when they recieve a whole shipping container full of one certain item. What are they going to do? Ship it back to China? No, they pass the junk off to us at a premium.

It's not just patch panels. I've have trouble with just about every part I've ordered, including gauges, bed wood, wiring harness, rubber, door mechanicals, etc. I think much of this stuff is made to loose specifications, and it's up to us to make them work.

I won't name vendors, mainly because I bought a lot of my parts several years ago, and things may have changed. Also, sometimes (but i don't think so) it might be the installer......

Anybody priced parts for new vehicles? They are up there in price and they are produced in much greater volumes than parts for our old trucks.

A year or so ago, Vintage Trucks magazine had a article on the parts situation, by Bob Adler, I believe. Basic message is that high quality parts would cost a prohibitive amount. One of the solutions being thought over would be a two-tier parts and pricing arrangement.

Having had to form my own patch panels for my windshield surround makes me grateful that even ill-fitting patch panels are available at any price. I don't mind working a panel some. It gives me a greater sense of accomplishment.

Well, on anybody buy new car parts. Went to jeep guys for left hand driver side fender flair, Guy said $95 plus tax for 93 cherokee fender flair. This is a piece of plastic. Bought from internet parts place for $43.
Did a 84 3/4 ton burb,for a friend. about five years ago. It was in no name storm flood, both sides rocker panels and lower door panels jc whitney, forgot what it cost but remember having to fit all parts to vehicle. This vehicle was in 32 inches of salt water. used rustolem red gloss to match poly paint job.
I make most body parts for my 40 burb so far 3 4' x 8' 20 gauge steel formed and welded in. wish they made stuff for the old girl but that's the way it goes.
Point is I wouldn't expect a body part to fit exact but I would expect it to fit close to oem. I think that is way they use plastic on modern trucks and cars it bends and fits eazy to what ever it is attached to. metal body parts don't work that way. But metal part for a body should fit close with some adjustment so you can fit them up.. That's the fun part.

jbennett
40 burb

I haven't bought any patch panels from ChevyDuty or Classic Parts and most likely will not. My experience with this vender hasn't been real positive.

All the patch panels I've bought have come from Ray Stanley and I have been very happy with his beautiful work. Of course most of it isn't installed yet so I guess I don't know everything yet.

I've been quick to retell my disapointment with ChevyDuty in the past. I'll skip that this time.

I will say one thing in defense of the generally available patch panels. Looking at my assortment of trucks I've concluded that after 50-some years lots of parts are no longer shaped the way GM intended and if the replacement parts we buy match new-old-stock specs they may not fit some of our rusty sagging and twisted trucks.

I would not be at all surprised to learn the part that is the subject of this thread was less than perfect. But then it might fit perfectly on some trucks and not others depending on which most closely resemble the pattern used in creating the part.

Old trucks are likely to have problems...

OK guys, bear with me a minute. First off I am not stupid. I have been around trucks a lot longer than I want to admit including othere AD's. NEXT: I do not expect an exact/perfect fit. I am no dummy. I have not seen a perfect fit one yet. Yes, I know all about tweaking, heating, bending, etc. This is not my first restoration by any means. I had the guy who has been doing body, building street rods, from near nothing, stretching studebakers into limo's, and lot of other stuff for over 30 years come and look at my truck. He came to my shop, looked at my panels and he laughed. Basically he said why didn't I save my money, he could make one better than what I got from CP. Adam admits the panels came from overseas so no big deal. I do expect a panel that I can work with....not one that I have to re-construct. I have actually been reading and part of the Stovebolt for almost 10 years and after listening to all the gripes thought I could help us help ourselves, and others on this item. I have been around the block a few times. Worked for chev dealer in early years and in the fabric industry even made the fabric and headliner that is in at least 50% of the new cars today before retirement. To think a vendor will not listen to the masses you are wrong. If CP wants to improve their product and be a good supplier they will take a look then another look to improve. As long as folks keep taking what is dished out the actual panel maker thinks he is doing a fantastic job and will never change things. Oh, and Adam did not refuse a RGA # as someone indicated it was that I ask for one and I may have it. I have not checked email yet tonight but will shortly. I even emailed Adam a few forum post about the quality of panels etc. If you do not expect better you will not get it. For those that take the time to try at least we know we have tried and have the right to complain. Oh, one last thing, I, ME, have the panels laying on my work table looking at them. If it was close I would not have said a word but when the differece is obivious it should be fixed. Now I think I will check mail. Looks as if I am beating a dead horse, though I never intended for anyone to automatically agree.

I can see both sides of this discussion.
1. if a part is historically incorrect then positive feed back with positive effort towards correcting the fault (as much possible) would be commended.
2. having 4 53 panel trucks (parts of any ways) i made a template of the lower panel below the rear doors.I checked with the other panels to ensure it was correct.all were different and none matched the contour of the barn doors which i bought at a swap meet that came from another panel.
having endured all this it's safe to say that they look similar.however all were hande made on the assembly line. frustrating ,yes , end of the world ,if you let get to you. ive been working on old stuff for some years it continues to amaze me how a part i would assume was punched out of the same machine could be so different.which i know has wear,that explains the difference.i have a cj-7 that says joop instead of jeep on the cowl stamp. i'm sure it is from wear after stamping that panel thousands of times.i guess thats what make them so endeared to all of us.who knew that?
tom

Perhaps it would help everyone to go to the Paint and Body Shop forum and read the very first post about this explaining the siutation. Even their own panels don't mate up...it should have been read before this one.

I know this thread is getting long and this is my 3rd post tonight. But I'm trying to be honest nad fair here. Below you will find Adam's response to me.. please read.

Here is your RMA number that needs to go on the oustide of the box. RMA 57097 I talked to my General Manager and he is going to talk to the supplier.

After reading all of this. I see some other people have my thoughts on the subject. Yes the stuff is made overseas, and from what I have read in a few good mags, they use a cheaper thinner metal as opposed to suppliers here in the states. Yes they are around, but you havr to do your homework.As for panels not fitting.Go to your local wrecking yard, and get a replacement panel.Its not going to fit perfect neither.I know this from experience because just the small outer cowl on my 65 C10 was a pain in the butt.Now as far as having to reconstruct the replacement panel. No you should not have to do any such thing.Now if the vendor is not listening to your comlaints after numerous attemps to explain the proble, I'd recommend find another vendor.I know Goodmark is overseas stuff, but I believe it is thicker metal.I have also heard good things about Sherman.