The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Head/Manifolds Mismatch! ('54 235)

Well, I got all set up to reinstall the intake and exhaust manifolds on the '54 235 that came with my project...and the gasket that goes between them didn't fit!

I had gotten them all cleaned up with the heat riser now working and things looking good until...

The head is an early '54 model 3835913 which makes sense.

But the exhaust manifold has 838130 839130 (corrected) cast into it which it seems is a 1940 to 1948 1942 (corrected) manifold. (It also has "L20" cast into it as does the intake manifold.)

The intake manifold has a casting number on it of 839279, which I found in one place online is said to be a 1940-42 unit.

So, the question I am faced with now is are these usable on the '54 235, or do I need to find correct manifolds in order to get this engine on its feet?

Thanks!

What carburetor do you have? The earlier ones for 216 engines have the mounting holes closer together than a 235 carburetor. I think your manifolds would bolt up to a 235 engine but would be setup for the smaller throat carburetor. If they bolt to the head and the carburetor bolts on, it should run, but you wouldn't have advantage of the slightly higher power of the 235.

Nick - Some resource searching makes it look like your exhaust manifold may actually have casting # 839130, which corresponds to 1940-46 exhaust manifolds for ALL Chevy 6's except for COE models.

The casting date L20 decodes as: L = November / 2 = 2nd day of November / 0 = 1940

Your intake manifold 839279 is indeed listed in my 1929-46 Chevy Master Parts Catalog as fitting 1940-42 Chevy's, ALL except COE. The later manifolds had a different casting and part number.

Looks like you have a matching set (?) of 1940 manifolds.

The correct gasket between to two manifolds is GM# 838290, 3-1/2" x 4-5/16" according to my same resource.

You can get an NORS gasket on ebay (for a good price + shipping), or order one from one of our various vendors, like Filling Station Part# FS-62.

All that being said, Kevin makes a valid point about what carb you have/intend to use when considering to use these or go with a later 235 set.

Thanks for the responses!

The number on the exhaust manifold was difficult to read even after trying to buff it up a bit...it probably is 839130! (I have attached a photo of the number.)

The carburetor that came with the project is a Stromberg BXOV-2. I have been told via this forum that, while it may work, it would not be optimal for the 235.

We live at 7,150 feet above sea level and a couple of the places we may go with this truck (if I ever get it on the road) are at 8,700 to 10,000 feet, so good carburetor function will be important!

I have been planning to replace the carburetor as a result of the advice I had received here and unless someone with experience running a BXOV-2 on a 235 tells me otherwise, I guess I am now in the market for a new intake manifold as well as the carburetor. Since the bolt pattern for the newer carburetors is different from the older ones, I guess I will need to replace the exhaust manifold too.

I would assume that it shouldn't be too difficult to find correct intake and exhaust manifolds for the 235 on the market.

Nick - I'm unsure if the Stromberg carb will work in your application or not. Not an area of expertise for me. Others may come back and offer further info. I will note that the existing exhaust manifold you have is listed for ALL Chevy 6's, both 216 and 235, from 1940 up to 1948. They have the straight down discharge flange on the exhaust manifold, which was the original design/style for your truck. The 1949 and later exhaust manifolds have a rearward angled discharge flange which may or may not be suitable in your engine compartment.

Just added food for thought to consider before you step off the deep end to acquire other manifolds.

Good tip Dan!

I suppose that the sheet metal pan at the lower passenger side of the engine compartment could be modified to allow for the exhaust pipe to be further back...but I wonder of there would be other conflicts.

I would assume that there have been plenty of 235s dropped into these earlier frames and perhaps someone here on the forum would be able to let me know if they are aware of potential pitfalls.

One complicating factor might be that the cab is a 1940, but the frame appears to be 1941-'46.

I have attached a photo of the left side of the engine from when I received the project showing the proximity of the steering box to the current location of the exhaust.

My local muffler shop told me not to cut up the side engine pan and he went the extra mile to bend the exhaust to fit. He also made the exhaust in two pieces and added a flange, so that I could remove the exhaust when needed. Not sure if the bending affects the performance of the system, but I'm pretty happy with the outcome. This is a '60 235 in a '46 frame.

Thanks John, that helps a lot!

I wonder if your local muffler shop kept notes on what they did so perhaps I could get them to make me a copy of that header piece without my having to bring the truck to them or another shop. It seems to me that there might be market among Stovebolters for at least that part.

Since your engine is a 1960, I wonder if its location relative to the side engine pan is different than my 1954 235 due to motor mounting differences?

The Stromberg BXOV-2 has a throat size of 1-7/16 inches. It's an SAE size 2 carburetor.

From the Carburetor Shop: All Carter carburetors for the 235s are an S.A.E. size 3 (2.9375 inch center to center mounting holes) and 1.3125 inch venturi.
Rochester B carbs for the 235 had 2 15/16" stud centers,which is a 1 1/2" SAE flange size
Carbs for a 216 had a 1/1/4" SAE flange size with about 2-5/8" center to center mounting holes and the same 1-7/16" throat size as your Stromberg (see pic below of a Carter YF964S on my 216) Note the gasket is a "universal" size usable for either a 216 or 236, which has larger bore size and mounting stud spacing.

I think it may be possible for you to find just a 235 intake manifold and mate it with your earlier exhaust manifold so you have the vertical exhaust outlet. That would give you the larger intake passages (you'd need a 235 Carb with larger throat) and get you the performance from the 235 engine. It's at least worth a try. If that doesn't work a 235 exhaust manifold could be used.

There would be no notes. He went back and forth from the truck to the bender many times. That first part took a good 90 minutes and then the back half was completed in less than 30.

I've had a muffler shop say to bring them a 9 gauge wire bent to the shape I wanted. You could definitely do that for the short section from the exhaust manifold outlet and down through the splash pan opening and headed back to the muffler. But taking them a piece of wire from the manifold all the way to the muffler would be pretty difficult and not very accurate. I had a bend card for my 51 that I took to my muffler guy (not the one that wanted the wire model, who gave me the deer in the headlights look when I showed them the bend card) and he bent me the exhaust pipe to the muffler and the tailpipe from the muffler to the back of the truck. But there won't be a bend card for what you'd need.

Nick - Just a reply to this portion of your question. The 1960 235 manifold Utah John has is the same style with rear angled exhaust manifold that was originally used on your 1954 235. So the location of the flange and exhaust pipe to your 1940 pan will be pretty much the same as his 1946 truck.

Shucks John! I was hoping for a really easy solution! I live in a very small town but there is an off-road shop that claims to do "muffler" work. I will give them a call. I really was hoping that your shop could replicate what they did for you on that first piece from the manifold down through the pan.

Kevin, my Master Parts Catalog (1929-1950) shows an intake manifold for 1950, ALL w/235 Eng. (exc. DUBL-DUTI, COE) casting No. 3835590, Part No. 3694163.
There is currently on eBay ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/116367644296 ) but the seller shows it as for 1954 to 1962. Sellers can be wrong, but I have seen that the Master Parts Catalog can be incorrect too! Perhaps I could ask the seller to give me precise measurements for the carburetor mounting holes. (Because my impression is that as this is for the 1950 production year, the carburetor would have the earlier footprint compared to the 1954 carburetors. Am I correct on that? Sometimes the more I think about something...the more confused I get!!)

Kevin,

I think that what is making me confused (and concerned) is that the gasket between the intake and exhaust manifolds for the earlier years are not the same for the later years. The link you gave for Jim Carter's gaskets indicates that the gasket they are offering is for "1941-1949 Trucks with 235 CID engines" (amongst other engines).

The Master Parts Catalog I have only shows up to 1950 (for which it lists the intake manifold with the 3835590 casting # and the 3694163 part number...and doesn't list any intake manifold at all for 1949 with no listing for other years with 235 engines! (I believe we know that there is a problem with the book there since it seems they made 235s starting in 1941 per Google!)

I am worried that the intake manifold for the 235 would not mate up with the older straight down casting exhaust manifold. My Master Parts Catalog shows a different gasket for the 216 and 235 engines for 1950.

I have attached a photo of the gasket that I removed from the set of 1940 intake and exhaust manifolds that came with my project with the gasket that came with the set I purchased for a "1954 235".

I hope that someone who has an earlier 235 might read this and weigh in as to whether or not casting #3835590 would bolt up to an earlier manifold.

It's getting late...I hope that this makes sense!

Nick you may be right about the intake to exhaust manifold wouldn't work with late intake and early exhaust. I have not investigated that directly. I had a 235 that I could have checked that on, although it was a 1958. But a set of later 235 manifolds should bolt up to your head. Of course it would have the angled outlet and you'd need a later carb.

I had gasket issues a little while back and created this thread. LINK It might be helpful?

Thanks for the link to your earlier thread about the manifold confusions, John.

I remember seeing that discussion while it was in process, but didn't follow the specifics as I was not involved with those components of my truck yet, and ASSUMED that what was already bolted to my engine was correct and would function as it should. Now, I am a bit more aware.

I guess that finding a set of manifolds that have the proper casting numbers for a 1954 235 should not be too difficult and should prove to be the path of least resistance...even if I have to have a custom exhaust created, as you (John) did.

Since my Master Parts only covers up to 1950, could someone tell me what intake AND exhaust manifold casting numbers I should look for?

The engine is from a 1954 Chevrolet automobile with a Powerglide transmission.

I will wait until I have the intake manifold in hand before I purchase a carburetor, just to ensure that I am purchasing one that will fit.

Thanks!

Nick, if you're needing later parts numbers, go HERE. Lots of other information on the home page of that site as well.

Attached is a pic of Intake and Exhaust Manifolds snipped from that resource with the casting numbers you'd need highlighted.

Hope these two pictures from the 1955 Parts Catalog help. Mike

Thanks Kevin and Rexville.

Now I know for sure what I am looking for! (And, how to find the web page for Master Parts Catalog for other years!)

My next step is to place a Parts Wanted ad in the Swap Meet forum.

Thanks!