Has anyone took apart a crank balancer? I'm wondering if it's possible to attach a custom pulley. Looking at it seems like the pulley, hub, and counterweight are different pieces riveted together.
Not having any luck locating a '53-'54 small diameter 3/8" belt pulley. So I'm thinking about making my own.
It's easy to modify a 230/250 six balancer to fit a 235, and they run either a one or two groove item with the right size belt groove(s). Just shorten the snout of the balancer about 1/4", and machine the seal surface on the OD of the snout back the same distance. The snout is slightly too long to make the belt grooves align with the water pump in its original form. Easier, simpler, and less expensive than modifying an original, and you get a brand new balancer, not a 70 year old one! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Checked Rock Auto, and one balancer I found for a 250 says 6.75" diameter. That won't work for me. Don't know if they are all the same size or not, will look at other applications.
It looks like you're hunting a unicorn- - - -I tend to go with what works- - - -not some arbitrary "standard". Good luck! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I located a balancer from a '53-'54 261 with 6" diameter 3/8" belt pulley. However, the counterweight is much larger than the pulley. This still poses a problem for what I'm trying to do. I need the smaller pulley and also the smaller counterweight (like the earlier engines) but for 3/8" belt.
Perhaps what I'm looking for doesn't exist? Were the '53-'54 235 balancers different than the 261's?
What kind of vehicle are you working with where a 3/8" change in the radius of the balancer is going to make a difference? That doesn't make good nonsense! If crossmember clearance is an issue, just shim the motor mount up a little. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Jerry, it is a clearance issue. I thought I explained this in our private messages? Maybe not. LOL
I posted the situation here here a few times. It's an issue of extending the front motor mount on the 235 forward 1" to reach the crossmember on my '36, rather than cutting out 12 rivets and moving the crossmember back 1" (a '36 was a 207 and is NOT a drop-in exercise like '37-up 216 swaps are) I'd rather not move the front crossmember if I don't have to.
As such, the extension I'm planning to make for the motor plate will extend underneath the balancer. I not only need clearance for that, but also enough clearance to be able to change the belt. I need a 6" pulley with the smaller weight to accomplish this. A 3/8" belt just makes it easier, but I agree that shimming a little higher to be able to get a slightly deeper 5/8" belt off probably wouldn't be a problem, and I may have to go that route if I exhaust all option at finding a 3/8" version. But a 6.75" pulley would require too much shimming IMO and not necessary if there are better options. Remember the counterweight portion of the 6.75" pulleys are even larger diameter, and it would be sitting on top of the high portion of the crossmember, and I have to be able clear that as well with the belt. Hopefully what I'm saying isn't too confusing. Would be easier to explain with pictures I suppose.
Same question still exists, though....am I looking for something that doesn't exist? If so, I'll either make a pulley, or settle for a 5/8" version.
Thanks Carl. So I need a '53 216 pulley, but not a '53/'54 235 pulley. Makes it even more rare I suppose! Even without the motor mount situation, I understand it's recommended to use the smaller pulley with the earlier water pump and plate conversion anyway so as to not overdrive the pump.
I think I would use angle iron instead of a flat plate to make the mount extension. That way, whatever balancer clearance is needed can be built into the custom mount without having to alter the vertical position of the front of the engine. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Jerry, I thought about doing that to create a channel under the pulley for clearance. But I still need to be able to slide the belt off underneath the weight portion of the balancer, and that will be located over the high portion of the crossmember. The angle iron won't help me there. But it's a good idea and I may do it that way.
You can see what I mean in the two pictures I attached. The first picture is my 235. You can see there is 1.5" between the front of the motor plate, and the rear edge of the balancer. Since the 235 is one inch shorter at the motor plate, that means it will be back one inch so the rear edge of the balancer will only be .5" from where the front of the motor plate was on the crossmember with the 207 installed.
The second picture shows where .5" forward of that position would be. Right at the edge of the high point of the crossmember before it drops off. So I will have to be able to get a belt between the balancer and the crossmember at that area. This is one reason I asked (in a different thread) how high a new front motor mount will be off the crossmember. You can see mine was obviously totally destroyed, and the motor plate was starting to eat into the crossmember.
These pictures also make it easy to see why I need the small diameter balancer and pulley combination
If that project was in my shop, I would be able to resolve the problem in a matter of minutes, regardless of the size of the balancer. I'm tired of making suggestions. Good luck! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Sure, I could too if I wanted to cut up the crossmember. Not sure why you're taking offense to me simply explaining the situation and what I'm planning to do. I've shown you no disrespect, and in fact, quite the opposite. Thanks for your suggestions.
I'm not offended at all- - - -but it's obvious you have tunnel vision about the size of the balancer, and refuse to consider other options. I sincerely hope you will succeed with your approach to solving the problem. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Perhaps I do, Jerry. But all you've said was "I'd use angle iron to keep the front of the engine at stock height" (or something along those lines. That's all you said. Perhaps I don't understand what your plan would be. Perhaps it's obvious and it just escapes me You didn't explain it. In a previous reply you said to just raise the front of the motor. Perhaps I have considered other options, but chose not to pursue those options for one reason or another, and that's why I've got tunnel vision on the balancer size. Who knows...
Anyway, I've always appreciated your input, which is why I've communicated with you in PM's. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered asking you. This is a hobby, among many other hobbies that also demand a lot of time, on top of working full time and taking care of a small farm with animals. So yeah, I ask a lot of questions and maybe sometimes stupid ones. But hey, if you want to offer no more help, then so be it. I knew absolutely nothing about these trucks or these engines and learned a lot here. Some of the other more experienced folks here seem to just be happy new people take an interest in these trucks, and remember a time when they didn't know everything either, or overlooked obvious solutions by overthinking things. I admit I do that quite a bit.
Two pieces of angle iron, welded into a "Z" shape, will allow you to create enough clearance for any reasonable-size balancer, (and belt) even the one with the huge rotating weight, by using tubular risers to support the regular attaching points of the 235 flat engine support. The 250 engine balancer has belt groove(s) machined into the external balance ring, not a separate pulley and weight. I would choose that option for two reasons- - - -it can be bought brand new, and with only a slight modification, will align the narrow belt with the water pump and whatever charging system you choose to use. If you use the 2-sheave item, accessories such as air conditioning or power steering can be adapted later, if you choose to do so. I have done all of the above on a few engines, so I'm not just blowing smoke. I wish you the best with whatever method you choose to try. With a little creative metal whittling, it would also be possible to fit a serpentine belt system with a spring-loaded tensioner that would be even smaller diameter. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I'm not sure about the hub diameter or other dimensions, but here's a link to a balancer for a Chevy 2.8 L V6 that uses a serpentine belt. It could probably be adapted to a 235 engine if you choose to use that type of system. One of the modified stovebolts I've got on the "to do" list is going to run that type of belt.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
If you have trouble locating a '53 216 balancer which comes with a 3/8" belt (cars and trucks), you can drill out the rivets of a a balancer which came with a 5'8" pulley, find a 3/8" pulley (6" diameter I believe) from somewhere and bolt it all back together. I recently had to drill out the rivets on a '53 balancer and bolt it back together because I dropped it which knocked it out of balance. I discovered that 10mm bolts are a very close fit for the rivet holes which is important for this procedure to work.
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
