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Is this still being made Tinners' Acid aka Tinners Flux?? I can't find it any place, has the EPA banned it. Nothing else works like it for galvanized sheet metal or oxidized copper cable.

Larry

for galvanized you want acid paste flux, commonly used by radiator shops, as opposed to rosin flux, used for tin and copper - acid flux on copper will leave harmful residues

Bill

Rosen flux is a weak flux used for electrical work, as it does not corrode. Tinners flux is a cloride salt (that i can't remember the name). it is avalible as liquid or as paste. it will absorbe moisture from the air, becomming acidic and corrode where exposed. most plumbing supplies have the paste. they don't call it tinners flux anymore. (Stained Glass Hobby supply houses also sell these very strong dangerous fluxes)
Also a fat based flux, olic acid also called russian tallow is used for leading for body work, it doesnt corrode. That is as much as i can recall from lost days as millwright.

as one who has done a lot of soldered copper plumbing, as well as being a leaded glass glazier, I have to disagree slightly both professions use rosin flux exclusively - about soldering fluxes

Bill

Hi Bill, Nice link. But if you read the package on standard flux that is used for copper by plumbers it contains zinc chloride. I always used olic acid when soldering lead glazed windows. The hobby fluxes they sell in craft stores contain zinc chloride also. It sure does clean up tarnish on copper, and i guess lungs. I was not a professional plumber, but achieved a degree of success as a glazier. May be it is differant stuff, here below.
What is your glass work?

For preparing galvanized metal for soldering use Hydrochloric acid. It's a solution of hydrogen chloride (HCl) historically called muriatic acid. The least expensive way to purchase it is at a swimming pool supply store, welding supply stores are 200% or more.

Muriatic acid is 37%. HCl. You can get at masonry outfit or good lumber yard or paint store. To convert to ZnCl dilute with equal amount water (if working fairly clean stuff - if real nasty leave at 37%) add anything galvanized = will strip zinc off real fast.

Use in glass container.

I would not call it toxic as such at 37% or less BUT do NOT get in eyes and the good old generic "use in fresh air or well ventilated area"

Dan Bentler

I know nothing about chemistry, never had the occasion to take it in high school and never had the brains to learn it on my own. Even tried one of those Chemistry for Dummy’s books and failed that course.
But I have used Hydrochloric acid, to fill batteries many years ago when they used to come dry, and Muriatic to clean the new hanger concrete before sealing it with epoxy.
If you cut Hydrochloric acid with water to make a weak solution or keep cutting it till is so weak as to make it none harmful, like to pour it out behind the barn or wash it out into the gravel, what happens to the solution when the water evaporates out of it? Does it turn back into a strong Hydrochloric acid again????
As far as that goes, I've been using a strong Phosphoric acid bath (about five gallon) to de-rust smaller steel parts. Since a dilute solution of Phosphoric is what is used to give the bite to some soft drinks and as a metal prep for bodywork, and Phosphoric and Muriatic for pools and concrete cleaning and it seems to be acceptable to wash it down the drain or out in the drive, what happens to the PH of the solution when it looses the water that it was diluted with????

Come on now, there has to be some chemists out there who feel comfortable with this and have pondered the same thing.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny - Hydrochloric acid and Muriatic acid are the same thing different name, it's also used to control pH in many situations - in dilution the chemistry changes, it doesn't 'evaporate' back to it's original form - same with phosphoric acid [actually orthophosphoric acid], the chemistry changes, it becomes a fertilizer OTOH that doesn't mean the other elements that have gotten into the solution from the cleaning or de-rusting can't have any detrimental effects on your grass or septic tank

Bill

denny you don't have to have brains to take chemistry, i am living proof of that. i think if the water evaporated it would leave a salt, which could be caustic, but it would prob run into water table before that. i know you can also boil hcl. don't ask me how i know i made a chem teacher mad by doing that in college. best i remember ph is all about being a hydrogen ion donor or accepter or acid/ base.

Thanks guys, Some years back I was researching the electroplating science thinking I'd like to set up a few tanks to do copper, nickel and zinc. I even bought a couple of expensive kits from Caswell. But after getting about a hundred different opinions, none of which answered the questions I had about neutralizing the chems and disposal of them, I finally gave up. The kits are still unused on the shelf, always afraid that if I mixed them up the animals might get into it because I didn't understand the chemistry. I hate to do ANYTHING unless I have some idea of what the result will be and what I'm gonna be left with in the end.
I kind of got myself out on a limb with that Phosphoric bath. I'm storing it in a clear Rubbermade-Blue Top storage container, not sure what it's gonna do to the plastic. So far it looks ok and it sure does a nice job stripping rust, old plating and paint if you leave it long enough. In fact I'd like to get more of it but Behr has eliminated it from their product line and I haven't found another source. So what I'm saying is I feel like I'm in the dark using it but it just is to good of a thing to pass up.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
If you dump Muriatic acid onto gravel you'll end up with calcium chloride, water, and carbon dioxide and it won't matter much how far you dilute it. This is probably the best disposal method if you have to dispose of some. Similarly phosphoric acid will react to give you calcium phosphate, water, and carbon dioxide although it may be a little slower. Dumping it onto soil is another story, likely will lower the pH for a "LOT" of ground water.

Dumping it like this, it's not likely that it will ever evaporate enough water to concentrate itself. If you put your diluted Muriatic in a container and tried to evaporate water to concentrate it you will only get to about 20% HCl since HCl and water form a maximum boiling azeotrope. Don't try this at home, believe me, boiling hydrochloric acid is NASTY stuff.

Are you sure it wasn't sulfuric acid you added to lead acid batteries?

I would not get too excited nor bothered by dumping small quantities of acid or base down to sewer NOT SEPTIC SYSTEM. Small quantity is quart or less. Just do it with running water to ensure adequate dilution.

Any acid will dilute a base and vice versa.

Drano is sodium hydroxide and a strong base and can burn you - yet it is for sale at grocery store.

Get yourself some pH test strips. What you want to do before dumping down drain is to neutralize to a pH of 7.

IF neuting an acid say
phosphoric (derusting)
sulfuric (battery electrolyte) hydrochloric (plating derusting)

you CAN add pellets of Drano but things will get agitated for sure. I would dilute Drano in at least a gallon of water and add some and see how strong the reaction is. YOu can keep going until reaction is small THEN test with pH strip.

Wear goggles faceshield and rain gear when doing this the first time. After you get an idea of what happens you can dispense with rain gear but NEVER goggles.

At pH of 7 it can go down city sewer.

Dan Bentler

As I recall, you used sulfuric acid for batteries, not hydrochloric acid.

Correct me if I'm wrong.