The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Radiator headaches continue......

As some of you know I had originally gotten a desert cooler (4 core) and found that it was too thick. So I sent it back in exchange for a standard 3 core radiator which arrived yesterday. I was dying early this morning waiting for the sun to rise so I could start.

Everything went ok but I first realized that I had to remove the spacer between the fan and the pulley to move the fan back (towards the engine) in order to clear the radiator. Don't worry I had the space. The fan did not hit the balancer. Down went the new radiator when suddenly the fan blade was hitting the lower horizontal portion of the radiator frame. How can this be ?

One thing came to my attention is that the new radiator is much taller than my original 2 core.
Thus the top is sticking up 1.75" higher that the radiator frame support. My current radiator is flush. This I assume is not an issue.

[img]http://www.cmaynard.com/Truck/IMG_1037.JPG[/img]

Going back to the problem of the fan hitting the radiator, it seem that the new raditor is thicker that my current. This is apparent looking at the sides of both radiators (seen below). The side "L" brackets (that has the 3 bolt holes) on my current radiator are moved as far back as possible, whereas these brackets on the new radiator are more centered. I assume the mfg realized that they can move the radiator forward only so far until it makes contact with the radiator frame support. Thus the remaining portion of the radiator can only go back towards the engine. Look how far right the angle bracket sits on the left (original) radiator as compared to the right (new) one.

[img]http://www.cmaynard.com/Truck/IMG_1040.JPG[/img]

At this point I think I'll visit a local radiator shop to see if they can put a 3 core in my radiator frame. If so, then I'm going to send the new radiator back. If not then I might have them detach and relocate the angled brackets on the new radiator (moving the radiator forward), realizing that I might have to cut out the upper horizontal portion of the radiator support bracket.

Boy, this has not been easy.....

CM, nice pix, sorry to hear that you are having so much problem,,looks like they should be the same size or close to it to match,,I have never replaced mine, had it out when I had to install a new pulley/balancer with a new woodruff key, I had some problem getting it back in, mine is a tight fit, I would hate to try and put one in that was not the exact measurement,,any way, no help here, but good luck, I am sure someone will come up with something, you may be right about going to the radiator shop and seeing them,,,good luck....Fred

Man you seem to have the worst luck with these radiators, I do wish you luck and hope that a radiator shop can fix your problemo.Even though this is not my post but rather than putting up a new one because this topic seems to be very up and alive these last couple of weeks I would like to see if I can get a quick response. I have a very bad overheating problem.I have a 3 core radiator on my 65 w/292.This thing heats up like its on fire, the needle shoots up all the way after a good twenty minutes of driving.It has a flex fan 6 blade,I just installed a universal fan shroud today and I also had the radiator flushed at a radiator shop a few weeks ago and it has no thermostat.What could be the problem? Cmayna,I think you should see if the shop has a radiator to fit yours befor you try and relocate the brackets see if you can get an aluminum radiator they seem to be better. Good luck dude!

look's like they sent you a radiator for 1-1/2 ton
& up.

1/2 to 1 ton are the same.

BIGGY You say you have no thermostat? Try it with one in there. I have heard that with out one the water isn't in the radiator long enough to get cooled done. Ray

I don't think your OLD radiator should have been sitting flush... Almost certain it should have been sticking up 1-2" above the rad. frame. Your old radiator is not the correct (stock) one?

The NEW radiator from the side doesn't look correct at all to me...The angle of the brackets should be more like the OLD rad.

I know this doesn't help...but you shouldn't have to go to a shop and change anything! It should be a pretty straight-forward installation.

Let us know of the place you're doing business with...What the #**#*@!!
I got a HD radiator from the "Truck Shop" in Orange...It was an easy switch.
Throw this to the Lounge and get some experts attention Craig.

Height of Radiator - Does everyone agree that their radiator are 1-2" higher than the support frame ? Yes, you might need to walk out to your truck to confirm this.

Here's another key question: My '50 originally had a 216 engine. I replaced it with my 235 from the '53. Doing this shortens the distance between the radiator and engine. Meaning is the location of my radiator frame support possibly too far backwards to accept a 235 engine and a 3 core radiator? (my current radiator is a 2 core).

cmayna - I have 2 AD trucks with 235's in them with the stock radiator in the stock location. Do you want a picture or two?

Ken,
Yes. I just sent you an email. How high above the radiator support is your radiator cap ?

Here's a shot of my current radiator that came out of my '53. It has a metal plate which is stamped 53B.

[img]http://www.cmaynard.com/Truck/IMG_1049.JPG[/img]

Craig

Craig,

I looked at a couple of trucks and what I found was that all trucks used stock radiator mounts for both 2 and 3 row radiators w/235's and left sufficient room for fan clearance.

I also checked my 4400 dumptruck with 216. It appears to have a 1/2 ton radiator in it? It has never overheated, even when hauling maximum loads around at slow speeds up steep hills and idling a lot.

Here is what I found.

\'52 3100 w/3 row radiator and 235 side view

\'49 3100 w/2 row radiator and 235 side view

\'49 3100 w/2 row radiator and 235 front view

\'52 4400 w/216 side view

\'52 4400 w/216 front view

The dump truck is covered with sawdust from building a play house for the kids in the top of the truck barn . . . and in case your wondering, the \'52 3100 is a runner . . . we use it to haul yard debris and landscaping stuff around the yard - it has had a hard life, but always starts and we don't have to worry about scratching it up!

A bigger radiator that should fit is from a cabover,I had one in a 51 3/4 ton beater. The only modification I made was to trim the piece that bolts on top of the core support in front of the radiator for clearance for bigger top tank. I was still running a 216 but it looked like no change in distance from the fan to the radiator. Jeff

Ken,
Thanks for all of the pics. Can you reference my 2nd shot showing the lower side shot ? Are your 3 core radiator's side flanges located as shown in my left or right example. My left radiator is my current 2 core. The new one is on the right.

Thanks
Craig

Craig, I am just in from the shop - time to hit the hay, I am out of town the next couple of days and can take a look on Wednesday.

Ken

Let's throw this back in the ring Craig...what's happening? Are you waiting on the mail order swap?

I have a 3 core radiator replacement radiator in my 51 pu,62 261 engine.The top tank sticks up 1 inch higher than the core support.I repositioned the brackets more like on your photo the the older radiator for fan clearance.Drilled out the spot welds and carefully used short self drilling screws for reattachment.Using a 5 blade 16 inch GM fan of unknown origin with the 3/8 spacer,clears the radiator by about an inch.When working with a mixture of engine parts you may just have to make the parts at hand fit the way you want.

When I met up with John Milliman and Doug Peterson a week ago we were all parked side by side, hoods up, and noticed that my radiator DID NOT stick out over the rad. bracket. Weird. Doug Peterson's '53 is a stocker with a known history so I'm inclined to believe he and John's radiators are the status quo (both profile 2 or so inches above rad.).

I've had mine out to clean and pressure check at a shop and when I reinstalled I'm thinking I went 'one hole further down' which inadvertently helps my Flex-A-Lite 6 blade fan cool better on my low-water-pump '56 235 in my '49 half ton.

I think Tony's job on moving the brackets is the way to go. Take the brackets off, dry fit the rad. where you want it, chalk in some reference lines on the rad., braze the supports, and you're good to go. Good luck with your challenge, Cosmo.

Update (well sort of)..... I have needed to use my truck every frickin day this week so I could not work on my radiator problem. This will continue thru mid of next week at which point I will drain my current radiator and re-look at my possibilities. I will take my current radiator in to a highly recommended radiator shop to see if they can recore it to a 3 row unit and it's cost. If they can do this and keep it's frame thickness current, assuming the cost is reasonable, I might go this direction. Otherwise I might simply relocate the side plates on my new radiator just enough to clear the fan. I also have a new (old) stock fan coming in from one of our favorite bolters in AZ which might affect the current clearance issues.

Boy, it was 96 in the shade today and I had to drive all around watching my temp gauge very carefully. Can't wait to get this behind me.

Next - New brakes.
Next - 3:55 gears
Next - Finally a new paint job.

So many Next's.........

Hope all of you have a good weekend
Craig

This is an old wive's tale. The faster the water moves, the more heat it transfers. And, it's not even linear - water moving fast enough to flow turbulently is *much* better at heat transfer.

Having said that, there *are* cooling systems out there with badly engineered pumps. F*rd V8s, for one. Here, without backpressure the pump will 'cavitate' - form air bubbles - and then its pumping efficiency drops way down. Adding a restriction to such a pump is an effective bandaid, because it make the water flow faster overall, due to no cavitation.

But all in all, faster water flow moves more heat, not lesss, both in picking it up from the engine and getting rid of it in the radiator.

Cheers!
George