The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Radiator Core Support and front sheet metal alignment

My truck - 1950 Chevy 3800 1-Ton.
From what I have noticed by looking at various pictures, articles, etc...., it seams like the core supports for both the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton for the AD series trucks mounts to the frame using 2 mounting points. My 1 ton however only uses 1 connection to the frame right in the center. I'm hoping to replace the rubber pad used at that spot sometime soon, so I guess my question is about using the 1/2 or 3/4 ton rubber pads. Does anyone know if the part is the same for the 1 ton and you would only use 1 of course. Or is there a radiator support kit made for just the 1 ton? I don't see a kit listed for the1 ton from the usual vendors (but I may have missed it somewhere). Appreciate any ones thoughts on the subject.

Thanks, Tom

Not able to anser your question but my 1950 3600 also has a single connection in the center - 2 bolts in line fore and aft. Impossible to say if t is original but I believe it is.

That is also how my 1950 1 ton rad mount is supported
Two bolts but in line at the center

By 1953 my other daily 1 ton the rad mount is two bolts spaced apart like the more common seen and discussed mount style
Both ways are original it is just a year difference
I’m not sure when exactly the front mount changed
I haven’t examined that area on my 51 3/4 tons yet I have two ready to go for my next restoration and the goal is to make one decent original truck out of the two.

-s

Thats how my 47 3600 was mounted too. Just the two inline bolts in the center.

My '51 half ton radiator support has two bolts side by side but spread apart, and has rods welded in an "X" across it to stiffen it up. But the frame has holes for both the wide spread double mount and the single mount at the center with two front-to-back bolts (pic). I also had at one time a 1954-55.1 1/2 ton frame that had the same mount holes. I've also seen radiator supports without the "X" bracing. I think either could have been used. As far as the pad, you could probably use the available wide spread mount pads, but would have to drill an additional bolt hole.

Given the possibility that over the 70+ years of the life of these trucks the radiator support in any given truck may have been replaced from a different size/year truck, makes it hard to be sure which supports belong to which truck.

52Carl is correct
I didn’t give it much thought
My 53 might not be factory original
The 50 however I’m very confident on being original
As I know the history of the truck and I have many more on my farm exactly the same way

We Need to find this detail in a gm document for 53 to know for sure if the mount changed
-s

Here's a clue. Apparently 47-48 trucks didn't have the wide spread bolts in the frame, so would have used a single point mount under the radiator support.
See the attached pic from the 1929-1954 Parts Catalog with my highlights. This implies that the single point mounts were used on 47-48 trucks and 2-point mounts on 49-53 trucks. Unfortunately it doesn't shed any light on the radiator supports used on 1 ton and larger trucks.

Tom - Based on your questions and other folks feedback, I did some digging in Chevy documents I can access in my own books or on line. From everything I found your 1950 3800 should have had a single mount point radiator support as you mentioned. 1st pic below is said to be an NOS GM# 3686128 3800 Regular production radiator core support (parts books show this was used on 1947-52 3/4, 1 Ton (Reg Prod) and 1953 1 Ton (Reg Prod) trucks. The single central mount point with 2 bolt holes aligned front to back match your described support mount.

If you are looking for replacement rubber cushions for this mount design, Chev's of the 40's Part# 3684763A is a reproduction set of the correct design and dimensions that are specified for the original GM# 3684763 cushion, radiator support bracket (2-1/4" x 1-1/4").

For a little extra info in response to "2ManyTrucks" note that details are needed in GM documents for 53 to see if the mount changed, I dug a bit further. The 3rd pic below is an extract from an original 1953 Chevy Truck dealer handout that shows the front core support mount to be a single point. Kinda hard to see, but it appears to be the same as you described for your '50. Further checks of Chevy Master Parts books 1929-53, 1929-54 and 1929-57 all shows the same design for the 1947-53 under GM# 3686128 and then in 1954 the part number changed to GM# 3707013, but does not show a description or design change. In the 1929-57 parts book, it lists GM# 3707013 replaces GM# 3686128 effective 4-1-55. Leading one to believe the part hadn't changed, just the number did (something GM has regularly done) and it retroactively applied back to the 1947-53 trucks too.

What isn't addressed in this info is that the 3100 1/2 Ton and 3600 3/4 Ton trucks did have a different core support (GM# 3692219) and wide spread dual cushion mount design that differed from the 1 Ton design. Chevy even offered a conversion unit support kit (GM# 3692306) that was used to modify the earlier smaller truck mount design from the original single center mount point to the one Kevin described above with the wide set mount holes and dual single hole pads.

NOTE: The underlined words are supposition on my part based on the info I found and read, but not specifically spelled out in any documents I could find.

I hope this is clearer than mud and that the information is useful.

EDIT: As usual Kevin posted a reply that includes some of my info in the long winded info I posted. Sorry for any duplication and Thanks Kevin!

Thank you all for the great information supplied. Thank you Dan for the pictures you posted of the NOS core support and the proper rubber cushions for it. Went to the garage and looked at mine again, now I'm really confused. The support on my truck does not have the special bent plate (riser piece if you will) at the bottom where it attaches to the frame. The channel of the support goes right down to the truck frame cross member with one rubber cushion in between (cushion badly deteriorated). Not sure what's happening there, I know that core support plays a big role in keeping the front sheet metal in check. The truck has been in our family since new, I'm not old enough to remember the early years of the truck, but ever since I can remember the front sheet metal has never been off. I'm handy enough to make that special riser piece and add it to the support if you guys think it should definitely be there. Just one more thing, where does the second rubber cushion go, I know there is one between the frame cross member and the core support, but does the other go on the top under the bolt heads? Again thanks for all the information so far, it's a great help!

Tom

The rubbers go between the rad support and frame only
You get extra rubber to make height adjustments for the front sheet metal tweeking.
You probably want to start with 1 rubber pad and temporary bolt until you have the front metal all looking good
Then when it’s all nice and perfect
Drop in the radiator
The rad will have clearance to go in and out with all sheet metal in place
I’ve done it many times, it can clear the open hood

If you have the heavy duty radiator option and a fan shroud it will be particularly challenging
The fan shroud must be loose over the water pump with no fan to slide in the radiator
The you carefully put the fan on
Then you move the shroud into place and bolt it and the radiator in place
Not sure how the factory did this step the correct way but I suspect it was not how i do it because the workers would have walked out on strike having to do it my way
-s

Note: the 2 lower rad mount bolts to frame are some of the very few fine thread grade 8 bolts with self locking nuts used on the truck, these bolts cannot be torqued tight because of the rubber pads, so the nuts have to be castellated locking type, many old trucks in the junk yard still have very reusable bolts and nuts for originality purposes

If you look closely, you'll probably find evidence of that "riser" where it was riveted or spot welded to the bottom of the support. They take quite a beating and break frequently. My original was so badly damaged that one of the previous owners had welded 1/2" thick steel to the bottom and inside as well to replace where those risers were. It weighed a ton, and was replaced by a radiator support I got from Jim Carter's bonepile.

Attached photos of a rad support from a 53 Chevy 1 ton on my farm
It has the same plate

I think I was mistaking the locking nuts under the front on the engine mount location in my last post

It seems that The rad support doesn’t use nuts because the special riveted shape has a threaded block inside of it and the bolts go up from under the truck

Hope this works - 1st time I have ever included pictures. Maybe the pictures will help understand what I'm am referring to with this core support issue. It appears that somehow that riser piece may have been removed or lost over the years. I think I will need to rebuild that area, get the proper cushions, new bolts, and hope for the best. Still like to hear your comments and ideas. Thanks for taking the time to look.

Tom

You near any good junk yards ?
Maybe a new old one from a yard would save you a lot of effort here
-s

Tom - Excellent job getting the photos to load up. Your support clearly suffered damage or a failure at some point in its life and looks to have a "homegrown" repair like happened with most trucks back in the day. You can see the bottom center of the support has a crack running through it front to back near the center and looks like the stiffener plate that you can see between the raised support part riveted on the main "U" section in 2ManyTrucks picture (snagged and edited a touch below) appears to have once been attached to your support but looks to be entirely gone.

I'm with 2ManyTrucks on the suggestion to see if you can find a better replacement support. That or you have some extra work in trying to repair and get that one into shape. If you decide to hunt for a replacement and don't have any sources close to you, put an ad up in the Truck Parts Wanted forum in the Swap Meet and let fellow Bolters try to help you locate one.

Yes it looks like there is quite a bit of material missing on my core support, and a replacement probably is a good option. A few all GM car shows will be happening this Spring that usually include a decent swap meet, also, "Back to the 50's" weekend here in St. Paul includes an all day swap meet on Sunday of that weekend. However, I feel I could repair it enough to make it look close to the pictures that have been provided. I'm not in an immediate rush for it, and will do some searching for a good replacement. By getting a good core support in place, will that change the front sheet metal fitment? Surprisingly it doesn't seem that bad, but after learning what I have through this correspondence, I think it will change and hopefully for the better. Any thoughts on that appreciated. Thanks again everyone.

Tom

Tom - That new question on how it will affect your front sheet metal fitment would probably be best asked and answered in the Paint and Body Shop. Since the whole conversation can fit that forum (with a little tweak to the title) to continue the help and info sharing, perhaps we can move the entire thread over there?

What say you sir?

That's fine, where ever it fits best to get an answer. Appreciate your help.

tTom

Moved to the Paint and Body Shop for continued discussion and help for Tom!

I would rebuild that riser from 3 pieces of 1/4" thick steel. Two pieces straddling the bolt access holes and another welded to those two bridging over them. The total height of 1/2" should be correct, but you could ask another bolter to verify that for you. It's not real critical as you can adjust with the rubber pads for final fender alignment.

Thanks Kevin, the height would have been one of my questions as I continue this saga. I've noticed that the NOS core support in a picture from Gdads51 earlier in the thread has the riser piece on it but not the flat steel plate between the riser and the core support channel as shown in the pictures from 2ManyTrucks. I'm assuming mine should be more like the NOS support, but maybe will be able to tell more when I get it out of the truck. Great information so far from everyone. Any more pictures and all advice is welcome.

Tom

1947-1950 Chevy radiator supports only had 1 frame mounting pad in the middle of the support with no extra bracing....
{ 1/2 ton trucks only }.

GM realized that they had a problem with front end flex & the radiator supports were cracking under that stress .

In 1951 GM upgraded the radiator support to 2 frame mounting pads with additional X bracing & an extra rod on the lower portion of the support to prevent any further flexing & cracking.

I do believe that the upgrade took longer to be applied to the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks as they had a stiffer frame with closer frame rails which prevented the flexing associated with the wide frame railed 1/2 ton trucks.

The 1951-1955.1 radiator supports are superior to the 1947-1950 supports.

Mother.Trucker, thanks for the pictures and information about these core supports, learning a lot from this discussion. I definitely need to do something about the one in my truck. Probably look for another in the short term, but I am willing to do the repairs to mine if nothing is out there. If any other bolters has something to add, please do so!

Tom

Mother.Trucker's pictures would seem to confirm that my 3600 truck is a '50 with its original radiator support (center mount without cross braces).

Back in '93 When my front oak tree came down and crushed the '53, I transferred its entire driveline, engine, etc and yes, dual pad radiator core support over to my newly acquired '50.

Glad to hear from Mother.Trucker

As long as we are on the discussion of radiator supports.... I thought it would be interesting to mention that GM actually offered a fan shroud to help with heavy duty cooling on the AD trucks ....the original fan shroud is quite elusive to find but, it is a really great upgrade to your AD truck if you can locate one while you are upgrading your rad support to the superior 51-55 style ....

I would like to get the dimensions of the riser piece as shown in the photo. I will look for a replacement core support, but even if I find one, I would like to rebuild my original one at some point. The dimensions requested would be nice to have for that purpose. Several core pictures have been included in this thread by bolters which are great to have, would just like to try my hand at refurbishing my original. Thanks in advance for the help!

Tom