The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Knee deep in bad body work

Working on an AD and have hit a big snag.

I am battling some previously questionable body work currently. Body is off of the chassis while I am working on it. Attached are some photos of the area I'm working on. I have reproduction floor supports to install and a reproduction floor section to put in.
I started on this and the more and deeper I got the more that needed to come out. Currently I'm uncertain if the floor support that I took out was even in the correct place. I wonder if the other side floor support is in the correct position as well, so I don't want to measure it and think that I can use that measurement to place the passenger side.
I searched through the Factory Assembly Manual and found the correct frame and measurements, but print is unclear and hard to read even with a magnifying glass. Also, it references the measurements from the "front of dash" - does that mean the flat part of the cowl ahead of the dash?
I purchased this project as a body only and no frame, so wonder if the earlier owner ever had it back on an original frame and bolted down. Unfortunately that earlier owner died and the person I got it from just had it sitting on an S-10 chassis to be able to move it around.
One other thing I encountered was that the mounting hole stamped in the repo floor panel doesn't line up with the hole in the floor mount width wise. I don't dare weld anything else until I am sure I have the correct placement of the "hole" for mounting passenger side front mount to an original frame.

So, after I have shared all my woes, what suggestions does any one have to help me get back on track?

It looks like your photos didn't attach- - - -did you follow the tutorial at the bottom left of the page? This forum software is a bit picky about following instructions to the letter! Your best bet would be to find an original frame to match up with the body mounts and other critical dimensions. Try putting an ad in the "parts wanted" forum- - - -it's possible that someone nearby might have a frame. I have a bare frame, but it's for a long bed 51 GMC 1/2 ton- - - -probably not much help dimension-wise.
Jerry

I was editing the ad to put in pictures as you were responding to my post. I have a bare frame and can get the side to side measurement, but it lacks the next mount back to get a correct placement for the mount I am installing. And, the frame measurements in the FAM are referenced off of "the front of dash". How do I locate the "front of dash" on frame I have so that the front to back measurement can be obtained??

Yes, you need to measure from a straightedge clamped to the front of the firewall (front of dash.) Every front-to back cab dimension is referenced from there. The FAM Section 1 Page 1.07 has the cab dimensions, including the body mount hole positions. The body bolt is 13.19" behind the firewall. And 23.5" from the cab centerline. For the side to side positioning of the cab, I would measure between the lower hinge bolts and weld in a temporary brace to maintain that at the correct width. The floor panels I put in matched fairly well as far as the body bolt depression. As with any replacement body panel, some adjustment will likely be needed. Also the joint between the floor and the toeboard panel is 8.47" behind the firewall.

Thanks for the reply Kevin. I was trying to get oriented by looking at the measurements of the frame in FAM. Will give the other measurement a go tomorrow and let you know the outcome. Jay

It looks like somebody has used the old "wheelbarrow" trick to make some room at the firewall for a non-stock bellhousing. Depending on which engine and/or transmission you choose to use, it might be a good idea to keep that modification. It looks a bit narrow, though!
Jerry

I would wait until I had a frame before I would weld the floor supports in place. That way you can place the cab on the frame to ensure that the holes in the floor and hoes in the cab support matched the holes in the frame.
You can secure the floor supports to where you believe they should go with a few small self tapping screws for a test fit.

I agree with 52Carl.

Considering that you’re already questioning the quality of the bodywork that’s already done, you need to fit it to a frame. You’ll have so much structure already gone that you’ll need those fixed points to have any chance of getting it right. I would also weld some supports across the inside of the door to keep the door opening from moving.

Once you get the supports positioned correctly, you can remove the cab to complete the welding.

You definitely have your work cut out for you. Keep us informed and post any questions you have.

Carl and Phil have good points. The frame serves as a jig for getting things in the right spot, although it can be done without the cab sitting on the frame. It takes some accurate measurements, though. The factory built the cabs without a frame in the area, but they did have assembly jigs that were used prior to welding things together.

I am attempting to put it back stock as I am using a 235 six. I have a section of a cab with that original part present - plan to install that as well.

I wondered about doing it that way - just trying to not go through that unless I had too. However, it seemed that any of the measurements I have taken have been off a bit so there might not be an option to doing it that way.

"Work cut out for me" sounds like an underestimate for sure! Thanks to everyone so far for the good ideas to get me back on track. Today got away from me, but plan to have a look at what has been suggested. Jay

You're a braver man than I.

Braver or not playing with a full deck - one or the other, maybe both. Lol

Prayers sent.
I have tackled much worse.
I replaced the rocker panels,
lower sections of the hinge pillars including the hinge pockets,
inner and outer cab corners,
replaced all of the metal above the beltline of the back of the cab 3/4" high, from lock pillar to lock pillar, (That sucked, but turned out well.)
inner cowls,
outer cowels,
inner-to-outer cowls,
front cowl,
dashboard,
floor board from the seat riser forward,
cab supports,
and toeboard.
Once I was done with the cab, I set it aside because I bought another truck that just needed mechanical parts to make it drivable.
I ran into an old neighbor who saw my truck and wanted to know if could build him one and I said, "Sure".
$50-some thousand dollars later, he had a show quality truck made out of that basket case cab.
I hope that you find this inspiring.

I bought my truck six years ago and my “three year plan” is now at six and still counting. With the amount of panels you need replacing on your cab, it will take allot of planning, money and time. I spend more time on my iPad searching for parts, techniques or advice on this forum, then actual work time spent on my truck. which helps to insure forward progress. Mistakes are costly not only in time, but also money and increased frustration which inhibits forward progress.

My father a very meticulous carpenter, preached to me “Measure twice and cut once”. That saying could not be more true while we work on our trucks.

In the words of one of our fellow ‘Bolters “Achipmunk”, “Fifteen minutes a day” every day you can and it will get done.

My truck looked about like yours, and my project took 9 years to get it back on the road. Persistence pays off in the end. Hang in there. We're here to help if you need it. Lots of resources here on Stovebolt. I have a ton of pics in the Flickr link in my signature if you're interested.

I can add to the long timeline for these projects. When I bought my truck I also planned on a 3 year completion, my wife said it would be more like 2 years based on prior projects I have done. I passed the 3 year point in December and have a long way to go. I have learned a lot along the way and had excellent support (both moral and technical) from folks on this forum. Check out my project journal to see some of my challenges/experiences.

Come on - stop encouraging me with wonderful stories of how long it takes. Unfortunately, I understand that it always takes a lot longer than you first think and costs more than you hoped it would.

Kevin - I looked through your photos on Flikr, lots and lots of work there. Looks nice though.

52Carl, I took your advise. It required several hours of work to remove a body from one frame, and get it in the garage to mount my current project on. But it looks like it will be worth the work. Front left mounting hole in place now for body doesn't match the hole for the frame mount at all.

I do have a question though - the body is a panel and the frame is a genuine panel frame with the extra needed mounting spots. When I set the body on the frame several of the mounting bolts slid in, but two were about a half hole off. Note this frame isn't the one that is original to this body. Is this normal? And, if most of the holes line up is it acceptable to simply drill out the holes that are a little bit off. They are ones that go through the wood planks in the back of the panel.

Jay

How many body mounting holes are there besides the two front ones near the door hinge pillars? Which two body holes were a half a hole off?
I haven't worked on a panel before, but if the clear majority of the holes line up, I would say that majority rules and you can simply drill the misaligned holes in the body oversize to get the bolts through the frame.

Enlarging the holes was where I was leaning. Jay