The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop My 1948 COE engine teardown issues

I've got my 235 torn mostly apart but I've found it to be badly rusted thanks to the fact that the valve cover had been removed decades ago which wouldn't have been so bad but in recent years one windshield and the rear window broke and it got rained and snowed on a lot. The head isn't bad and can probably be saved. All valves were shut thanks to some pushrods being loosened or maybe popped out of the rocker, anyway no mice got in. Now I got the rods and mains unbolted ang removed the crankshaft. It has some rust on some journals but now for the pistons, #1 slid out easily and appears to be aluminum and looks great with only the oil ring stuck but the others are tight. The cam and lifters are rusty and stuck badly so my question is do you think I should try to get everything freed up or is this block a boat anchor. Are there any good cores available anywhere or do I need to go a different route? I'll post pictures now, I hope. Any pointers will be appreciated. This truck has been on the farm since 1951, I have the original manual and the Bill of sale yet..

If you want to maintain a semblance of originality, the most important thing is the condition of intake/exhaust manifolds for the updraft carburetor. The exhaust manifold tends to crack. Less important is a free heat riser flap in the exhaust manifold. Reproduction bi-metallic springs can be found at the usual vendors. These manifolds will fit an original splash oiler 235, as well as the later full pressure 235s. Whether you use your original engine or a replacement 235 you will need a functioning carb.

To answer your question, I would continue to see whether you can salvage this engine, all the while looking for a replacement. Good luck,
Kent

My exhaust manifold is cracked and broken however the intake and updraft carburetor were all intact and I'm sure a rebuild kit would be all that's needed although I haven't really done much more than removing it. I plan on restoring the cab in the meantime and to be honest I'm not totally sure what direction to go as far as the truck goes. I have a 283 and transmission we pulled out of a 60 viking we had before it was crushed 10 years ago. If this 235 won't survive I might investigate that possibly if it could be adapted. Just got wind of a guy that's pulling a 235 car motor out of a 57 Chevy to put in a 350. Would that car motor work or is that a no? It's supposed to had a fresh overhaul recently.

FMM, FYI ... one more post and you'll be out of moderation. Then you can post without it needing approval. Even just a "roger that" will do as a post!

Welcome to Stovebolt!

Make one more post so you will have access to the "private message" function of the site. Drop me a PM and I'll respond with a phone number. I have a complete spray-oiler engine from a cabover truck with the updraft carb and the exhaust manifold still attached. I haven't run the numbers yet but it's probably a 235. Getting it from Tennessee to ND might be a challenge, though. The 1957 235 six won't be a direct bolt-in, but it's doable if you aren't concerned with being "factory original". The position of the water pump is different, but there's an adapter plate available to use the 216/older 235 pump. The 283 V8 conversion would involve a lot more effort and expense than installing a later model six.
Jerry

Even if the 1957 235 needs repair, it will be a cheaper rebuild than the original one if it turns over. By the time you're done driving the stuck pistons out of the 1948 engine, you're looking at a rebore, and the lifters will probably need to be replaced, and the rusty crank journals ground.
The 1957 motor shouldn't be that hard to bolt in. Like Jerry said, the water pump would need an adapter plate.

Good luck on your project.

If you've got "deep pockets" and a real desire to make the truck look original, there is a way to put a later model rotating assembly into the original block, and even increase the displacement to around 270 cubic inches. That requires some very creative (AKA E$$$$PENSIVE) machine work, however!
Jerry

Will the newer 235 motor be good with the intake manifold from the origional? If so then adapt the waterpump or do you need an adapted water pump on a coe truck ?

Thanks for all the advice in getting around this great site, I really appreciate it. Roger that!

Jerry, thanks for the info, I'm not that concerned about keeping it original. I'm not going to spend ridiculous $ just to keep it that way either but I may consider putting a decent running 235 back in it if I find one or take a second look at what would be involved putting this 283 in place of the six. It will probably need some freshening up also if I were to use it. My updraft carburator looks ok but there is some rust damage to the intake where the 4 bolts hold it together so that will need some repairs if that's possible. Lots of work to the whole project but I'm in no hurry.

I have intake/ exhaust manifold that came off a 235 powered coe.

Just a friendly reminder, that any transaction of parts are not allowed within this forum. Send a PM’s or post thru the swap meet forums.

There is not enough room for the 283, without serious modifications, including locating the V8 behind the cab. The hump in the cab floorboard (also called the doghouse) sits right over the valve cover of the 235. Using any 235 requires only a few modifications such as reusing the original valve cover and road draft tube to allow clearance between the floor and engine. A later 235 has a breather on the top where there is not enough room and to add oil you need the road draft tube with removable cap. You would also have to use a short shaft water pump, or better yet, adapter plate with your original water pump.

The later 235 will have a bit more horsepower which certainly helps moving that beast around.

Kent

Thanks for the information Kent..I haven't done any measurements yet so I respect your word. Just eyeballing the mount area of the coe t was thinking that it would sit low enough to allow the valve covers to fit below the floor boards but maybe I'm way off. I've read where others did it but have no details of what they modified. Fran

If you really want a V8 you might want to consider just mounting the cab a a modern truck chassis. Then the speed, trans, braking, suspension and steering will all match. Every thing under that floor board is quite tight!!

Wally’s workin chev coe on you tube .shows a motor home chassis might give you a look at what is involved

If you go for the later model stovebolt engine option, it might be a good idea to search for a 261. They're out there, and on occasion you can find one that the owner doesn't think is gold plated. I've been given two of them- - - -"Just haul it off- - - -it's taking up too much space!" If you choose to modify the doghouse to clear a V8 engine, the stamped sheet metal tub of a wheelbarrow makes a good starting point.
Jerry

I'd go for the spray oiler rebuild. Until you get it apart, you won't know the condition of the bottom end. It might be OK. To get it apart buy a couple of cans of Areo Kroil penetrating oil. I know it's expensive but there's none better that I know of. Soak the cylinders with it and the lifters and don't be in a hurry. If you get the crank out you may be able to tap the lifters out with a plastic or wood punch of some sort from the bottom even with the cam in place. If this is a two ton, it'll have a 235 in it. You might be able to scare up an early Power Glide head that has bigger intake valves.

My 1-ton had a 1948 235 in it when I got it and it had adequate power despite a couple of burnt valves. Its first job was to haul several thousand pounds of bricks. Slow but got the job done. Bottom end was OK when I pulled it.

The big intakes (1.94") can be fitted to any stovebolt head- - - -just takes a little seat grinding and pocket porting. To get those stuck pistons to move, figure out which ones are headed "down cylinder" by looking at the angle of the connecting rods and fabricate a jackscrew plate to bolt to a few head bolt holes. Use a piece about a 3/4" or maybe a 1" all thread rod with a nut welded to the top of about a 1/2" plate, and make a steel push plate a bit smaller than the piston crown to spread out the load. Crank in a fair amount of down force, and smack the top of the push bolt with a BFH. Soak- - - -push- - - -rinse- - - -repeat! It won't take long to get a piston all the way to the bottom- - - -then switch to a different cylinder.

If it's really stuck, forcing one piston down with them all connected to the crank will try to force others up (and down.) A less destructive way is to pull the crankshaft out first and work on each piston individually. The crank can be removed without getting the cam and front cover off the engine. There's enough room in the front plate to get the crank gear out once the bearing caps have been removed. I would have done that on the frozen 235 I got except the clutch, bellhousing and flywheel were still attached. I pulled the crank gear, freed up the cam and removed it and the front cover. I still destroyed one of the pistons that was REALLY rusted in place. You could also just disconnect the rod bearing caps and drive them out the top with a long punch against the piston pin boss, although that's probably going to destroy the piston as well.
It's kind of like an interlocking puzzle, but the more parts you get out, the easier getting the pistons out will be.

Thanks, I have the crankshaft out and #1 piston. I'm soaking them with atf but I really doubt I'll ever get that rusted cam out or the lifters so getting the pistons out may be a waste of time but it can't hurt to try. I'm wondering how much heat I could apply to the cam bearing area and the lifters before I wreck the block, I think it's a good block yet, it still had antifreeze in it when I turned it on it's side. The pistons are aluminum so it's the rings that are stuck.

You can also use a big hole saw to cut the top of the piston(s) out just inboard of the rings- - - -about a 3 1/4" diameter or so, driven by a variable speed 1/2" drill motor. Use a floor mount drill press if you have one available, and support the block on a stack of boards at the oil pan rails. The pistons are trash anyway, since the rusty cylinders will need to be bored (or maybe sleeved). Once the ring area is freed up the rest of the piston can be driven out easily. 235 pistons in various oversizes are all over Ebay- - - -and the same ones that fit the full pressure engines have the exact dimensions as the spray oilers.
Jerry

I wouldn't write the block off just yet. Unless you get the lifter bores red hot, you probably won't ruin it. Does that cam turn at all? I think after soaking and maybe a little heat from a propane torch (which won't have the energy to really overheat the block) you should be able to tap the lifters out from the bottom. I had one lifter that was stuck enough that it wouldn't come out without some persuasion. All of the lifters in my engine were totally worn out, so no big loss. Here's a couple pictures of the one piston I had that was real stuck. Maybe those will give you some hope to salvage yours.I broke the crown off of it with a punch and then used a sawzall to cut a relief slot in it.

Drill and tap holes in the top of the lifters and use a slide hammer to yank them out. Virtually everything in a seized-up engine is trash anyway, with the possible exception of the crankshaft, block, head, and connecting rods. (Maybe the cam can be reground- - - -nobody I know of is making small bearing journal new cams).
Jerry

I bolted in a 62-235 in my 46 COE with no problem, Just had to use a modified water pump and the original manifolds and valve cover. It just so happened my wife's uncle had two 235's laying on his garage floor, the only problem was they were up north. So a a visit I had to pick one and take the bell housing and flywheel off and put it on a pallet so a friend of mine could ship it to me. I had it bored and rebuilt. One other thing I would say if you go this route, use solid lifters, the hyd. ones you can buy now are very problematic. I could explain but it's a long long story!!!

Question, on this 235 COE motor you've all been comment on for me, what about a GM 250 motor, I found a guy selling one with a 4 speed that was running when removed from a 68 truck 3 days ago, reasonable priced. Would that drop in or is it totally different as would my manifold fit, etc? Thanks

Very little (if any) parts interchange between 235 and 250.

The 194, 230, 250, and to some extent the big 292 share a lot of parts, but it's a completely different design to the 216, 235, and 261 engines. Those engines started being used in the early to mid 1960s. The Chevy II and Mercruiser 4 cylinder engines shared a lot of the design features of the later model sixes.
Jerry

Ok, thanks for the update, I'll continue with plan A, fixing mine or finding a replacement 235 somewhere. Thanks

I think he was asking if a 250 would fit. FWIW, the crankshaft length on 235, 250 and 261 engines are the same length, just about an inch longer than a 216.
So length would work. As far as motor mounts, etc. I have no idea.

A couple of things I forgot to mention is the holes will need to be drilled in the front mount pad, the front pad is on the all 235 motors, but the later ones don't have the holes drilled in it, also I had to do a little grinding on the original manifolds to clear the bolt holes mounting them to the head. In 1963 GM they changed almost every thing on their 6 cyl. motors.

Update on my 48 Chevy COE 235 engine project. I've located a slightly newer 235 out of a 47-53 3100 pickup. It has the shorter valve lifter cover that doesn't go up around the spark plugs. It's listed as a 54 to 62 motor, I haven't seen the numbers yet. I can get it reasonable and it turns freely. It may need some work but my old one would need a total rebuild too if I ever got it freed up which looks difficult. My question is would you see any issues using this for a core? I know I'll need to use an updraft intake and I don't think mine is useable because it's broken out where it attaches to the exhaust manifold so I'll be looking for one of those too, my carburator should be useable. Thanks

GM changed all 6 cyl. Engines starting in ‘63, from 235/261 to 193/230/250/292, so nothing on the engine carries over.

Ed

I've located this 235 that was in a 5 window Chevy pickup, it isn't locked up anyway. Will this fit in my COE. If it needs rebuilding, that's ok because my original is in rough shape anyway. He sent me several pictures but no numbers yet. It appears a little newer 235 than my old one. Thanks

That's a 1955 or newer car engine, or one from a 55 second series or newer truck. The solenoid-type starter and the low mount water pump is a good indicator. Post the stamped letter/number sequence beside the distributor to allow the number crunchers to give you an exact year and application for it. You'll need to use the original intake, exhaust and carburetor for your cabover, and an adapter to use the high mounted water pump. The front motor mount will probably need some adapting, as well.
Jerry

I picked up the replacement 235 today and it turned freely but it would stop just before TDC on #6 both ways so I pulled the head and found a small wedge of old carbon stopping it, now it turns fine, all the lifters move and the bore shows no scoring nor any detectable ridge on top so I'm quite pleased so far. I'll post the engine number below hopefully so maybe someone could help identify what this engine was put in when new. It was in a 47-53 pickup is all they told me.

FMM - A quick scan through the GM Heritage Vehicle Info Kits ID's that engine serial number to most likely be from 1960-62 Chevy C10, C20 or C30 (base 235 engine for each model):

F = Flint manufacturing plant

01 = Indicates the month of build (January)

12 = Indicates the day of the month of build (12th)

J = Base engine for C/K10-20 and C30 (per the 1961 chart)

Could have very easily been dropped into an early truck with only a few mods and transfer of earlier parts like flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, starter etc.

Look for a block casting date code just above the starter and post that. Decoding that info will give a better clue about what year.

Picture attached.

That's the block casting code used on 58-62 235 engines.
The code that Dan was referring to is back by the starter and would be an alpha character for the Month (A=JAN, etc.), 2 digits for day of month and one digit for year.

Ok, I'll have to check that out tomorrow when I get back to my shop. The motor appears to be in nice condition so I hope that I will be able to adapt it to fit in this COE.