I have posted here before but obviously I am still confused. This truck is still very difficult to start. It has a stomp starter on it. Please tell me if my basic assumptions here are correct. When engaging the starter, the stomp switch's small connector provides 12v to the ignition switch which is then provided to the hot side of the coil. When the stomp switch is not engaged, and the engine running, 12v from the ignition switch goes through the resistor on the firewall and provides 9v +/- to the coil. Correct? So, with the ignition switch turned on, and the engine not running, should I get 9v +/_ at the coil? I get 4.7v
While starting the engine, using the stomp switch, I get 10.5v +/- at the coil. Should I get higher voltage than this?
After starting, I get 9.5v +/- at the coil.
Is this all correct? Am I missing something?
The stomp switch electrical output was intermittent. I was not getting any voltage out of the small connector on the switch, so I replaced the switch and 'assumed' my hard starting issues would go away.
To get an accurate measurement at the coil + with the engine stopped, the points MUST be closed, and clean. Any slight resistance across the points will result in low voltage at the + terminal, since some of the voltage is being dropped getting through the points. The 9.5 running volts is OK- - - -everything else is wrong. What's the battery terminal voltage with the engine running? If the charging system is operating properly, it should be 13.5V or more, up to about 14.5 against a fully charged battery.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
SanteFe, what we have here here is a failure to communicate. I posted some thoughts and questions on your other post that Gord linked. The failure is mostly my fault, but some of my questions were ignored or not seen. Here they are:
"You don't know and we don't know if the "hard start" has anything to do with the stomp switch. 10V should fire the motor. But you don't describe "hard start".
you say "It does start but not right away" No fire at all? Some fire? Slow crank? Pops/sputters out of carb or exhaust backfire? And as said we don't know battery voltage while cranking. Could very well be a bad battery breaking down. But again, specifically describe "hard start". Don't want to assume anything yet and start chasing the wrong thing. Hang loose til we get info, think and advise tests."
Now In this new post I advise to stop testing voltage, you are getting nowhere and it is NOT the way to troubleshoot a hard start condition. I/we are trying to give you the procedure that is best when someone has this issue and we are not there to test and observe. It's Tuff for both sides sometimes. So again stop testing for voltage and describe carefully and completely what the motor is doing, what the starter is doing, how fast it's cranking and how long it takes to start You don't know if it is a fuel delivery issue, bad starter, bad battery or some NON electrical issue. Your voltages are just fine.
Also please do not use the word "connector". You are using it incorrectly. At least I don't know what you are talking about. I do know what a connector is. The ignition on your truck is wired as follows: 1. Wire from dash ignition switch BAT terminal to one side of ballast resistor. 2. Wire from other side of ballast resistor to coil pos. 3. Wire from the foot switch SIDE TERMINAL to coil pos. 4. Of course, battery cable to foot switch Stud. 5. No connectors involved. No wire from side terminal to ignition switch.
The ignition switch supplies voltage to the ballast resistor, thru the resistor and on to coil. The Side Terminal on foot switch also supplies voltage to coil. This is called a bypass system. Meaning a method of giving the coil all available voltage as starter draws big volts and amps during foot down.....then.... Motor starts, foot lifted, that side terminal direct feed voltage is disconnected and the ballast path takes over for run mode. Supplying a reduced voltage to save wear on points.
You seem to indicate that the motor does eventually start. so you must have things correct. If so and you have cleaned everything like you said you did, your ONLY task at this time is to answer above questions. Skip the concentration on voltage. You see how it's wired. All you have ever described to us is needing "Hard Start" help, then launched into a discussion about voltage. As far as I know you never checked for spark at the spark plugs, never checked if you have gas in tank or gas squirting down carb or said if you are choking or not choking, etc. Let's do this. taking too long.
Other post, you say: "It is my understanding that this small connector/wire (purple btw) is connected to the ignition switch to provide 12v at the coil only during the time when the stomp starter is engaged. Correct so far?" NO The foot switch provides the voltage to the side terminal/wire internally. See my wiring instructions above. Bill Hanlon answered this in that first post of yours in case you missed it.
Last edited by bartamos; 12/07/202410:10 AM. Reason: clarification
Guilty as charged! I have used poor nomenclature as well as not provide enough information regarding the truck's symptoms. I appreciate your patience. Hard starting - Just crank and crank. No sputter, no backfire, sometimes within the first second or 2 there seems to be life, but then it is gone and does not return. Full gas tank, new fuel pump, carb disassembled and cleaned, new plugs currently milk chocolate brown, new points, cap, rotor, wires, coil etc. Initially the truck started OK but ran rough. Hence a full tune-up and replacing items mentioned above. Wiring had been awkwardly patched. Replaced wires from the side terminal on the starter switch to ignition switch, ignition switch to resistor, resistor to coil, hot wire from starter to ignition switch, etc. Correct color wires were replaced with the same color as shown in the wiring diagram and the factory assembly manual. In both manuals were shown violet wire from the starter side terminal to the ignition switch. Not directly to the coil. The side terminal on the starter switch was intermittent. Sometimes during start, there was 12v at the side terminal and sometimes not. I used a jumper wire from the battery + to the coil + and the engine fired right up. (Obvious hint here that I missed!) I removed the jumper immediately after start. This is why I started focusing on wiring, switches, voltages, etc. I replaced the starter switch. Consistent 12v from the side terminal. But still failed to start. 1 out of 10 times the engine might fire. A short blast of starting fluid would initiate a start. Reading bartamos comments brought up an interesting note. He wrote "3. Wire from the foot switch SIDE TERMINAL to coil pos." This is not how the wiring diagram and FAM show it. I wired according to them. But....running battery 12v directly to the coil started the engine. That should have been an obvious clue. I removed the violet wire from the starter switch side terminal and used a short violet wire (just for consistency) from the starter switch side terminal to the + side of the coil. The truck fired right up. I looked at the wiring diagram and FAM just to be certain. They both show the violet wire going to the ignition switch, and only one wire, coming from the resistor to the coil. I have run out of time today to continue testing the work around. But letting the truck sit for a day or 2 would reinforce the solution. Does anyone see an issue running 12v directly to the coil during start? I believe this is what is supposed to happen anyhow. This solution then also means that during engine running, there is now 9.6v +/- coming from the coil to the side terminal on the starter switch. But there should not be any connectivity unless the stomp starter is engaged while the engine is running which is obviously not a good thing. I will follow-up tomorrow after further testing. Thanks again! bartamos, THAMKS!
The only issue will be that the engine will start and run momentarily WITH THE IGNITION SWITCH OFF anytime the engine is cranked if the wire is run directly from the bypass terminal to the coil . It will shut off as soon as the start pedal is released. The correct wiring setup uses a special ignition switch with an "IGN 2" terminal on it to interrupt the bypass voltage unless the switch is in the "run" position. The bypass wire is supposed to be connected from the starter to the IGN 2 terminal. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Jerry, Thanks! Understood. If I reconnect the wiring as designed, the engine is very difficult to start, if it starts at all. Maybe an ignition switch issue? And I have not been able to find a switch exactly like the one in the truck. All the ones that are for sale saying they fit a '57 require some rewiring. But regardless, it starts easily now. I will just live with the problem. And just in case, should you stumble across the switch I need.... I will enclose a pic. Thanks again!
SantaFe, you did some good rethinking and got a great result. I see what the FAM says. This era that you are in is all screwed up by Chevy and their diagram drafting techniques. This era 55.2-59 was a period where 12V came in, V8 came in, electric solenoids, ballast resistors and bypassing that resistor. They maintained foot start for 6 cylinder for a while, had electric solenoids for a while with no "R" terminal. All the while trying to draw an electrical diagram for all this. They did a poor job. As you can see they point to a "button" on top of the starter and call it 'Resistor (by pass)" Violet wire. Then show the battery feed coming in to the side of starter. Then they introduce a spring loaded start position switch. Not one word about a foot start on that diagram. The previous years (6V) had an on/off switch with foot start and no side terminal and of course no ballast resistor. Chevy just floated by 12V foot start with some cryptic wording like resistor (by pass) on the diagram.
1. When the AD guys go to 12V, they buy a side terminal foot switch and wire it to the coil. They buy a ballast resistor and wire it per my post. They turn the on/off ignition switch to on and hit the foot pedal. 2. I think the side terminal was energized so it could supply momentary voltage to the coil. It is Chevys first try at bypass. With a foot switch and a IGN 1 IGN 2 spring loaded ignition switch you wouldn't turn ignition to start position (IGN 2), you would just turn to run (IGN 1) which on the original switch is also "ACC". The start position is not used. Some of the newer of that kind of switch is very different. IGN 1 and ACC are isolated from each other and there are other changes in some newer which do not allow for a bypass. Be careful what you buy. Anyway back to first style spring loaded switch.....If you push the pedal without turning to run, as Jerry says, it will "start" for a second. 3. When Chevy started using electric solenoid without a "R" terminal on the solenoid, You would wire the first style spring loaded as follows: Ign 1 to ballast, ballast to coil pos. IGN 2 to coil pos and to power solenoid. 4. When starter solenoids had a "R" terminal you went back to the side terminal idea. The R terminal was exactly like the side terminal. Turn key to start and "R" is energized. Let off of key and it returns to IGN 1 (run) and R is disconnected and IGN 1 takes over to run motor thru resistor. The wiring is: IGN 2/Start to solenoid (I) terminal. Solenoid R to coil pos (like the side terminal), IGN 1 to ballast, ballast to coil pos. 5. Not sure if early 55.2 6cyl foot start had on/off ignition, probably not. You have to improvise with a spring loaded switch as stated for a foot start. lots of variables in the beginning I've tried to cover. SantaFe, good to see you are happy. I would use that ignition switch you have. THIS is the switch for your case, albeit not original. Maybe a chrome bezel nut will fit it.
Just want to say I don't understand the FAM diagram regarding ignition. They show IGN 1, which is hot during run, spliced to coil pos. That would be 12V to coil without ballast. It would make more sense if it was shown from IGN 2 which would shut off and allow resistor to take over. Seems like a big error.
Last edited by bartamos; 12/08/20241:33 AM. Reason: clarification
Did you test your ballast resistor? If the engine fires when you stomp the the starter pedal, but dies as soon as you take your foot off the stomp starter, a bad ballast resistor is often the problem, or you forgot to turn the ignition key to run (I find myself doing that all too frequently.)
1952 5-window - return to "as built" condition | 1950 3100 with a 235 and a T-5 transmission
