The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1954 3100 starting with starter fluid only

I recently purchased a 54 3100 that runs and drives great, but....will only start using starter fluid. Any suggestions on how do troubleshoot

Jim60, You probably will get the best replies in the Engine Shop on your topic, so your post has been moved there for help and conversation with fellow Bolters. Others should be along soon to offer help and ask more questions as extra details may be needed to come up with a solution.

Is your problem limited to cold starts only, or do you need a squirt of Moose Juice even on a hot restart? The diagnosis process is different for either of those situations.
Jerry

most of the time, recently I parked the truck for about hour and it did start on it own, but I'd say 99% of the time it needs starter fluid , and then it runs and drives smoothly.

Do you have a functional choke ?

Have you tried vigorous throttle pumping to prime when starting cold?

Be careful with the “crack” - I’ve seen a guy knocked on his butt by a backfire fireball when using the stuff.
Stand at arm’s length.

Do you know how to use the choke properly? Very few people younger than their 70s have any clue about starting an engine with a manual choke! The only thing throttle pumping does is give you leg cramps.
Jerry

I do have a functional throttle, I have tried pumping to prime.... maybe not vigorously enough .....

I'm 80 but give me some pointer, I can always learn something new......thanks

First- - - -make sure the choke cable moves freely, and the choke plate closes fully when the knob is pulled.

Cold start: Pull the choke knob all the way out, make sure the ignition switch is "on", and crank the engine until it fires. A well tuned engine with a hot battery shouldn't have to be cranked for over 5 seconds, even if it hasn't been started for a while. As soon as the engine hits, push the choke knob in halfway. The engine SHOULD run at fast idle without any attention to the throttle at all. After half a minute or so of warmup, you should be able to push the choke knob in fully and the engine should "slow-idle" normally. If the engine refuses to start and warm up with the above procedure, you have either carburetor and/or ignition problems, of possibly a vacuum leak somewhere. Hot starts should not require ANY choking. If a hot engine sits for a few minutes and is difficult to start, it's probably flooded. Hold the throttle wide open- - - -no choke, and crank until it starts.

I suspect you've got bad starter connections, dirty points, or internal carburetor problems. Most "carburetor" troubles are actually electrical- - - - -at least during the 65+ years I made a living as a mechanic, shop owner, and shop teacher. Now I'm just an opinionated old geezer who likes to stir the pot on internet forums!
Jerry

Jim60, when you are starting it and the engine is warm, does it blow dark smoke from the tail pipe indicating flooding? or does it start quickly on the starting fluid with no dark/black smoke?

Point of order:
Mr Jim is priming the engine with ether.
Pumping the throttle also primes the engine, with gasoline.

Do I assume correctly that the carburetors of that era have an accelerator pump? If not, my pumping point is pointless.

Yes, those carbs have an accelerator pump. With a choke that's working correctly and the proper starting procedure, pumping is pointless- - - -sort of like wearing both a belt and suspenders to keep your pants from falling off.
Jerry

after starting the engine there is no particular smoke just normal exhaust, Engine starts immediately after priming the engine. Both throttle and choke cables appear to be functioning properly.

I understand that closing the choke and pumping the throttle at the same time may be redundant; I was soliciting information on the OP’s situation.
It was an inquiry, not a recommendation. At the time of my post we had very little to go on ; I was just trying to get the ball rolling.

Jim has now told us that the choke and throttle cables appear to be functional, but has not said anything about the use of the choke.

I yield the floor to Mr Lincoln , it’s all yours.
So’s the ball.

OK- - - - -the cable works- - - - -does the choke plate close fully? Is the fast idle cam that opens the throttle plate slightly when the choke is applied work correctly? All those things are adjustable, and they must be set up properly.
Jerry

Lot to work on.....thanks for the help....now tomorrow I'll be checking on the suggestions referring to the choke plate and throttle plate,,,, thanks again, I'll check back with you guys tomorrow...the sun is down for now....

Jim60,
After the motor is warmed up, if you turn it off, then turn the ignition switch back on and then attempt to restart it, is it just turning over but not firing? If so, have you tried to tap the gas pedal a couple times resulting with it successfully firing up? I've seen this issue surface with a local friend's 52.

So far I've had no success with getting the motor started, carb appears to be working correctly, still needs to be prime , then were running fine.....

Sounds like maybe your accelerator pump isn't working. With the engine off, look down the throat of the carburetor with the choke open. Goose the throttle manually. You should see a squirt of gasoline in the middle of the carb every time you pull up on the throttle rod. If you don't your accelerator pump is shot and your carb needs to be rebuilt.

If the fuel pump is failing would the symptoms be similar. starting only when primed ?

Well, judging from a lot of the fellows in my age group, regarding Galluses ( suspenders) ,
Redundancy seems to be the trend!
We got this old for a reason!😎

There should be enough fuel in the float bowl to start the engine even if the fuel pump is suspect, and you noted that it runs ok once started which indicates that the pump is supplying enough fuel at the higher load. From the prior posts, it sounds like it's time to do a carb inspection/rebuild.

Thanks, I did check the fuel flow at the Carburetor, working fine, so next I'll tackle the carburetor and see if that solves the problem. I disconnected the fuel line into the carburetor and turned the motor over, gas flowed freely, but will not start unless I use the starter fluid....... had the motor running for about five minutes shut it off and tried to start immediately, no luck would not start....

Narrowed the issue down to the choke..... the choke control on the dash when pulled does not engage the choke, the choke plate does not close...I now need to determine how to correct that.....

When I held the choke closed motor started up just fine....

Maybe a broken choke cable- - - -or WAY out of adjustment?
Jerry

I think it must be out of adjustment......when I push choke in it opens and runs good....

again thanks for your help

Your cable could be bent or rusted or broken or something. Does the choke move at all when you pull or push the dash button?

I checked the cable appears to be ok,,,,,when I pull out the choke it moves the control arm at the carburetor but it does not close the choke, seems like something is blocking it's ,movement

I'm checking in the morning to see if everything on the carb it correct....

Throttle appears to work at it's supposed to

good news is that I now know why motor won't start, when I force the choke plate closed , motor start perfert.

Check your PMs- - - -you might be missing the cable bracket at the top of the carb.

I believe it there,

I could send you a picture......tomorrow it that would help

I don't know how post a picture, but I can send you via a text message

Jim

signing out for the night , again thanks for handing in there with me.....we shall over come...

Use the email in my profile- - - -can't do text on my land line and I'm in a cell phone dead zone!
Jerry

A lot of carburetors will not allow the choke to close unless the throttle is opened a little. I believe it is related to the fast idle "feature" of the carburetor when the choke is engaged. Anyway that may be what's stopping the cable from moving the choke.

Here's the throttle and choke mount on a Carter YF. Yours should be similar.

Choke plate does not close when choke cable is pulled ...... arm does not move back far enough to close plate.... cables seems to be working, just adjusted incorrectly, have trouble finding the correct positioning ....

couple photo's of my carb. working on getting adjustment correct..

Jim60, once you have the choke issue taken care of, I think you also need to look further into the carburetor, with a warm engine or if has previously run within the last 1/2 hour, you should not need to choke it, just turn the key and touch the starter and it should fire up. Definitely get the choke working as that is needed for a cold start AND you don't want the choke valve flopping open or closed independently of the cable position.

That wire looks suspect+ bent. Make sure the wire moves within the cable housing well enough.
I`d try moving the housing back in the clamp more with more wire exposed.
I start/set mine with the choke 1/2 open and the cable 1/2 pulled out.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice....

What role does the spring on top of Throttle control play, seems very weak...?