Years and years ago (sometime in the late 80's or in the 90's) I thought I saw something like this. I thought I saw an article in Truckin' Magazine about someone putting a 4 cylinder (4BT series) into a GM panal or 'Berb.
I tried to search about Cummins and big Bolts, but not much came up. Sounds like some put it into 1 tons.
I 'thought' I saw someone selling a 4BT set up to take a GM Turbo 400 tranny on Ebay last week. I thought book marked it, but I must not have. I think they were running engines out of a bread truck or something. The price wasn't all that bad from what I recall.....
So, what does this sound like:
*Cummins 4BT (hopped up for more power) *GM Turbo 400 set up w/ parking brake at then end of tranny *GV Under/Over unit
Yes, lots of money into it for the engine & drive train.
I'm just 'planning' as of now. I don't even have a truck to put it into yet. Kind of want to find out that has no engine/tranny. That way I could just drop everything in to it. Granted, I'm not sure how to work the two speed rear end into the equation to get the spedo to work right.
Comments, suggestions, sources, words of advice/caution.... :confused:
1948 Dodge 2 ton 1950 GMC 1 1/2 ton 1952 GMC 3/4 ton
Actually, I don't have a project vehicle yet. I'm just doing research.
I know it's a heavy engine and for sure, a 1/2 ton will not hold it. I was thinking of a 1 ton or bigger. (There are lots of old GM/Chevy trucks in my area that were used in hop yards..... make an offer to a farmer....might get a project....)
The engine seller I saw (which isn't popping up on Ebay searches) was selling complete, running 4BT engines w/ the GM turbo 400 bell housing. The engines were under $2K and for an extra $400.00, they said they would include the tranny!
1948 Dodge 2 ton 1950 GMC 1 1/2 ton 1952 GMC 3/4 ton
This is exactly the original plan I had for my own truck, but the 216 is working out much better than I thought it might, and now I have a backup engine. Also, I had a heckuva time finding a 4BT at this end of the country. I was looking for an early one without the air-to-air intercooler. It would be a perfect swap into my auld girl, and with an NV 5-speed would probably double the fuel mileage, which would be just fine. Now I see there's this one: http://cgi.ebay.ca/Cummins-4bt-turb...615QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem listed right now, but at the moment I'm no longer ready.
A fleet of one ton route vans I used to work on converted over to the 4BT years ago. They had a lot of vibration, were noisy, smoky & sluggish. They finally got rid of them & went to the 6.2 -6.5 v-8 deisels. Thats why you see them floating around for sale. I would look at the v-8,s. They are almost a drop in replacement for a small block v-8.
They say money can't buy happiness. It can buy old Chevy trucks though. Same thing. 1972 Chevy c10 Cheyenne Super In the Gallery Forum
The link has topics on just about EVERYTHING for a 4BT...... Figured I'd share it.
Edit- That ebay link, I saw that one. But the one last week was some diesel engine out fit. As I mentioned, it was a 4BT that was used in a bread truck. I'm thinking that it'll show up sooner or later....
My 'idea', if it'll ever get off the planning and RnD, is to find a big Bolt, about 2 ton and swap in a 4BT into it. I don't want to modify the original frame or mess w/ the steering box relocation/redesign. I'm thinking a 4BT would fit in the spot a old 270 or 302 I6 GMC quite nicely.
1948 Dodge 2 ton 1950 GMC 1 1/2 ton 1952 GMC 3/4 ton
The same seller has several of them, and I think at good prices. Although I would hear it run before I bought one, and see if he offers a replacement warranty of some sort. Because for a little more money you can have a new one.
There is a guy here that puts small Detroits in 1 ton pickups. Willcox Diesel Service Several are buying route vans at these auctions, for the engine and trans for conversions http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionList.asp?bhcp=1
It's possible with some simple fabrication and no body modifications, so not bolt in, but not hard. The power is better than the gas engines with the potential for lots more. Fuel economy should be around 25 in a 1 ton truck or smaller. I would not use a 1/2 ton. The 6BT is just a little to long to make for a simple swap, the 4 cylinder is a better fit.
I too have heard that the 4BT engines shake really bad. However, I don't think there is anything really wrong with them, but there isn't anything unique or spectacular either.
That said, I still think that for most people the Cummins 4BT is probably the best choice for a diesel swap in an old pickup. Although if there is room then the 6BT would be better for a real work truck.
My personal choice for a unique and capable diesel swap is the Detroit Diesel 4-53T.
Originally posted by asilverblazer: Why that one? What kind of cost are we talking about to get either one of these engines into a big bolt, say a '55 4400...
Why what one, the 3.9 liter 4BT, or the Detroit 4-53T?
The cost to do it right negates the fuel savings unless you use the truck all the time, and then it is a stretch.
The 4BT engines can be had used for less than 2000, and new for just over 5000.
The Detroit I used can be found used for similar prices, and rebuilt professionally for a little more than the new cummins. It will require some cab modification to fit an AD truck.
The added cost are the OD transmission, faster gears for the rear axle, power steering, and better brakes. While these are not required, they make a truck many times more useful.
As far as total cost, $10-20,000 in parts. I have my truck complete to a rolling chassis with engine, transmission and axles installed in a powder coated frame, as it sits now I have over $10,000 in just parts, and countless hours.
I know nothing about diesel engines and would not know how to recognize a Cummins 4BT. Here are a few photos of a Cummins diesel in a 1941 1/2 ton Suburban. It supposedly gets 34 mpg on the road and it was pretty quiet.
Originally posted by tclederman: I know nothing about diesel engines and would not know how to recognize a Cummins 4BT. Here are a few photos of a Cummins diesel in a 1941 1/2 ton Suburban. It supposedly gets 34 mpg on the road and it was pretty quiet.
My personal choice for a unique and capable diesel swap is the Detroit Diesel 4-53T.
Grigg
The Detroit would definitly be my choice. I see that you already have one. I'm an 'ol Detroit fan from way back. I have driven 6-71's have owned a 6V-53. I would like to put a 3-53 in my '65 C-30 someday. Presently I own a 2-53 in a John Deere farm tractor.
Have you all seen the video of the '64 C-10 4 X 4 with a 3-53?
By the way, I saw a video of an Old Bolt on line with a Detroit in it. Grigg, was that yours?
'60-'72 Chev/GMC Fan GMC 9500 Fan Detroit Diesel Fan
Sounds like these kind of swaps aren't going to work very well for the intended use of my truck. If they were an almost direct swap, that worked with all the other existing components but simply had more power or better mileage it might be worth it to me. But to spend that kind of money on this particular truck would be impractical for my use/plans. If I were to go through all that work and money. Then I would certainly have to put a new (real) paint job on it. A/C, power steering, freshen the interior, etc... Suddenly its not an old work truck any more. I am more interested in making my truck function in like new condition, like 1955 new, not 1995.
asilverblazer, Saw the picture of your truck. Very nice original. If I had that truck, I too would want to keep it original. The swaps we are talking about would be more for some non-original trucks, in my opinion. My '65 C-30 has no engine now and needs a lot of work to bring it to original, therefore a good choice for a Detroit swap. What's cool about the Detroit swap tho is that the engine is made by the same company the truck is made by and both were available in the same years. Kind of like GM should had made them that way anyway.
'60-'72 Chev/GMC Fan GMC 9500 Fan Detroit Diesel Fan
For a big bolt I would go with the 5.9 for sure. A 4bt will be underpowered compared to the 5.9, not to mention all of the goodies you can bolt on a 5.9 cummins. I would go with a 12 valve for the fact that they are all mechanical and can be turned up with just a turn of the star wheel(air fuel control). I have one in my '98 dodge 3500 and it will pull just about anything you can hook to the truck. If I were you I would go find myself an old dodge 1-ton and steal the engine, NV4500 trans, and Dana 80 rear end.
1953 3600 w/ full pressure 235 "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" --If all else fails, play dead.
That's what I've got planned for my 53 2-ton. I've got a 12 valve from a '95 dodge, just need the NV4500 for it. Plan on using a wheelbarrow to give the firewall more clearance.
For the record --- the Cummins 4BT weighs in right at 750 pounds. Available HP ranges are(stock) 80 to 130...(modified) up to over 800. They are known as "paintshakers" for a reason but it is not difficult to minimize with proper mounting (fluid mounts located above the crankshaft centerline).
And the one shown in the pair of pix does not have charge air cooling (intercooler) which makes installation a lot easier in an old, narrow nosed vehicle. I know because I'm in the process of stuffing an intercooled 4BTAA into a '46 Chevy 1.5 Ton school bus and fitting everything involved with cooling (radiator, intercooler, trans cooler & A/C) is a major issue.
Mine engine is a "two wire" motor (all mechanical) with 130hp and 355#'s of torque which is way more than originally pulled the vehicle. Paired with a new Allison, double OD 6-speed (2200MH) the calcs put my highway speed at about 65 with a stock rear end while running the engine at its' "sweet spot" of 1800rpm. Should easily get about 25+ mpg in that rpm range. All the calcs were run by Stewart & Stevenson based on several pages of input data.
Great little motors, but only if you match them to your expectations. My plan was developed based on lots of long haul cruising with better than average mpg and minimal maintenance. But like everything else in life...we'll just have to see how well the "plan" and reality merge.
Kind of want to find out that has no engine/tranny. That way I could just drop everything in to it. Granted, I'm not sure how to work the two speed rear end into the equation to get the spedo to work right.
