The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Do you want HEI for your 216/235/261?

I realize there are plenty of folks who prefer to stay with points, and that is perfectly fine in my opinion, but there's been discussion about HEI lately. For a while now I've been promising I'd solve the problem with this distributor and it turned out the answer was simple. And I think this might be a good alternative for a low cost HEI distributor for the 216/235/261...if of course you want one. It dawned on me while shaving this morning...HEI alternatives are few. It looks different from original, but it is okay once you get used to it. Sort of like acne or hairs disappearing from your head and growing out of your ears.

Where this was made is a pure mystery (it isn't marked anywhere) and I know it was designed for the 230-250-292 engine types. The mounting flange of the 230 is wrong for the 235 so you need to carefully grind it or file it off, make a new flange which sits higher and you need to trim the bottom of the shaft where it connects the oil pump. I used a points distributor as a guide. If you look at the images you'll see it is a large distributor, big-boy coil in the cap, vacuum advance and you can see I used some old 235 hardware to modify the mounting...but I could have easily made a different mounting piece. One wire from your ignition switch connects it. I'm not 100% certain but I believe this distributor uses some standard GM parts.

The problem was it leaked oil out the distributor cap. Aside from that it worked fine. I ended up getting one of Tom Langdon's Mini-HEI units so I just cleaned this one and put it in the box to fiddle with later. What was wrong with it? Turns out there were two thin washers between the gear and the body of the distributor...and there should have been something else down there. Something to keep the shaft from moving up/down. The body cavity naturally fills with oil (which lubricates both top and bottom bushing) and since the top didn't fit snugly it leaked right there. A spring washer (wavy washer) between the two thin washers between the gear and body solved that and the spring washer will keep it that way. Soon I'll test it and make certain. I may need to remove one washer to make it a bit less snug or it is possible I need to put the spring washer up top.

In the images attached you can see where oil runs up the shaft cavity. You can see where there was space allowing the shaft to move up/down. The red arrow points to where I put the wavy washer. You can see what the distributor looks like (mine is blue...most today are red or black). And you can see how I modified it to fit the Stovebolt engines.

More to follow on this thought after I test for oil leakage, etc but for now that's a start on one more HEI ignition scheme. Comments are welcome!

Do you have a part number or anything like that to help someone hunt down another one?

I don't have a part number but these are very common on eBay, Amazon, etc and all the large parts houses sell them now. Please look at eBay auction number 283571046765. It is the same one as I got years ago.

The OEM big cap distributors are scarce as hens' teeth these days- - - -and the offshore clones need to have the internal electronics replaced with OEM pieces- - - -module and pickup coil. The wire harness also has TINY conductors on the offshore junk. It's better to find an OEM part for a late model 250/292 and rebuild it. The centrifugal advance will also need to be recurved to match the stovebolt specifications.
Jerry

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Motors-Chevy-216-235-261-Straight-6-HEI-Distributor,443602.html

I’ve wondered if you could make one of these work ok with OEM internals.

It will probably work "as is" for a while, but given the tendency for offshore electronics to be less than reliable, I'd want to have some OEM replacement parts on hand. It's already got the adjustable height pinch clamp.
Jerry

If the big cap HEI wasn’t so darned ugly on a Stovebolt….I’d probably try one.

More interested in the Langdon style S10 idea. However, it seems like a fair bit of trouble to machine and fab given my lack of a lathe and related skill.

Points seem to be pretty adequate for my needs. But still following this project with interest.

This guy will convert your original stovebolt dizzy or any other breaker point dizzy to HEI.


DAVE's small-body HEIs Converts your original points style distributor to HEI system
24 Buffalo Lane
Yerington, Nevada, 89447
775- 722-3294
[email protected]
http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

https://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/about

Nice find. His price sheet doesn’t seem all that crazy high for a basic conversion.

He's been doing it since the 70s. His work is extremely high quality.

I have Deve's HEI on my truck. It works very well. My original distributor that I installed his kit into. No altering the distributor so it can't go back to points if you wanted to, but I can't see why you would ever go backwards. Lasts a very time long according to Deve.
http://devestechnet.com/Home/HEIgnition

That MOPAR trigger assembly is virtually impossible to find if it ever needs to be replaced. It was only used for a few years in the late 1970s on the slant six engine. GM pickup coils and reluctors were made by the millions.
Jerry

I promised an update and so here is some information:
1. I stopped the oil leak. It turns out it was leaking in two places. First as I knew at the top of the shaft and this poured back in to the inside of the distributor. My wavy washer trick fixed that (I think for good). The second place it was leaking was actually where the distributor fit into the block. Wasn't leaking as badly here but enough to need fixing. My use of the 235 mounting hardware didn't work as I had hoped. First I tried an o-ring there but that didn't work so...

2. I made a new collar. I used some 1" PVC pipe and with a chop saw cut a 1/2" piece so it would be nice and parallel. Then because the distributor body is about .93~.94" where I needed the collar to be, I slotted the PVC and filed it even so it would clamp with a tight fit (using a radiator screw clamp). You can see that in the first couple of images below.

3. As in the third image you can see I slipped an o-ring on (actually I ended up using two o-rings to be certain I got a nice seal here). Once this was done I installed the distributor and then lifted it up about 2mm so as not to push down into the oil pump slot too hard when it was tightened down.

4. As you can see in the fourth image, I need to add a 1 inch inside diameter washer on top to have the clamp fit just right but it doesn't leak a bit now. Whoopee. Nice when a plan works, isn't it?

After not using this for several years what do I think so far? This thing produces an impressively strong spark. I believe there's even a difference in the brightness of the timing light. With the Langdon Mini-HEI, the engine had a persistent idle miss if idle was set down low (around 450~475 rpm) and this little misfire caused it to run rich at idle and cough intermittently out the tailpipe. So I assume there's something not quite right in there or possibly with the coil and I'll attack that distributor later. With this distributor starting is very fast. With the Langdon HEI the engine seemed to run best at 10* BTC. With this distributor it runs best around 12~13* BTC.

Yes, it is ugly and I need to straighten up the wiring. I'm not concerned with the ugliness even a little bit, though. This thing is measurably better than I remembered it being. As Jerry aptly said it may need GM parts to improve the reliability. However before mounting it I checked everything I could inside and it looks okay to me.

Given the cost of these, I'm considering buying another one for experimentation. Maybe a red one might look more interesting.

I’m a little lost on which project is which here. Is this one you’re tinkering with is similar to the Speedway unit I linked a few posts prior? It looks similar, anyway.

Great post. Up to the point you suggested trying one with a red cap…..

Thanks...yes, this is the same distributor you linked to I think. Large and some might say goofy looking. You don't think the red would be fly enough? They come in black, blue or red. The red often is a bit less costly.

Only use the red one if you also plan to pinstripe the cap with some “Von Dutch” style artwork.

Thinking of ways to minimize the ugly here. I have read/heard somewhere that you can use these with a cap that does NOT include the coil, and then run a traditional round coil. Is that true? And if so, which cap would that be?

Speedway says these are incompatible with generator charging systems. Input voltage not stable enough at low rpm? Would that be the reason?

Von Dutch, sure. That guy is dead now, isn't he? Kenny somebody or the other?

You could use an external coil but I'm not certain which cap would substitute for this one. Since my truck is red I have a bit of a leg up with the red one. Of course there are only about 9013 different shades of red.

You can use an HEI setup with a generator. Some people say it won't work as well. But I have never heard a reason that made enough sense to repeat. Maybe because those folks weren't using a red one.

Red distributor caps add 20HP. Because science!

Long dead. 1992, apparently.

Put some yellow plug wires on your red distributor while you’re at it. Maybe one of those barefoot looking gas pedals.

Back on topic now. Sort of.

Speedway also sells a 216/235/261 “ready to run” dizzy that is apparently some knockoff of an old Mallory design. Smaller and less ugly, but ONLY available with a red cap as far as i can tell.

Finding replacement parts, if one had to, for a long obsolete Mallory unit seems like a hassle to me.

Only if I can also get the tiny barefoot dimmer switch piece also, but yellow plug wires, of course. 1992? Dang. Quite a while ago.

Here you go Jon G, it comes as a set:
Barefoot Gas Accelerator Pedal/Dimmer Cover Kit

I keep getting threatened with one showing up in my garage.

Those are horrible. What's weird about that set is that the left and right foot aren't symmetrical.

Left foot only has 4 toes and right foot has 5 toes.

The picture together is misleading because the dimmer one is less than half the length of the gas pedal.

But yes. They are awful.

Ah yes. It takes me back to 1964...when guys were hoping to impress girls by wearing Ed "Big Daddy" Roth sweatshirts with the sleeves cut off. Back when a nickname like "Potsie," "Ralphie," "Fonzie," or "Richie" might have been something you didn't want whereas "Rock," "Snake," "Buzz," "Rusty," "Slim" might have been okay.

@JW51 My Mom had a red Dorf pickup when I was a kid, and it had the chrome barefoot gas pedal. Still remember how awesome that looked back in the day.

Anybody else remember "Car-Toons" magazine? Ed Roth was a regular contributor, IIRC. Long live Rat Fink!
Jerry

I bought a Rat Fink sweatshirt with a Model A pickup on the front in 1959. I was 12 years old. First (and only) time I wore it to school, Sister Mary Holywater made me go home and change.

Now I'll probably get a ruler-swat on the back of the hand from a moderator for drifting off topic.

Yes, we all (me included) need to get back on topic.

"Just Passin' Thru"- -- - - -Mr. Natural

I don't know if you all remember, but we had our own ToonMan, Rob Butler. That is the old story from the Features Section.

Bought them back in the early 60's when I was 13 years old.

You think this one is based on the s10 style?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234564019271

Sort of looks like it might be but again it doesn't. I'll try to put some images of the S10 based distributor up later.

Here are images on the Tom Langdon Mini-HEI distributor.

There are some differences with the eBay CRT and the true Langdon version. I’d say maybe they share a distributor cap, at the very least. But the housing looks different in a few areas.

I also got to thinking this might be this…..

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevy-235-261-Six-Cylinder-Electronic-Distributor,57411.html

…..because I start with the assumption that there are no “new ideas” here and everything is a knockoff of something else. But that can’t be the case, either…as that one, has no vac advance.

Best theory I can hatch, is that the CRT eBay thing is an attempt at knocking off the “Langdon” S10 design…with new parts

I’m just going to ask the eBay seller some questions and report back.

I don't know about the one Speedwaymotors has...awfully expensive for what strikes me as an odd design. And as I said I'm not certain about the one you mentioned on eBay, either. I took another look at it. Could be a knock-off and it could be something else entirely.

Given the amount of spark that ugly blue one I modified puts out, I'm inclined to use it for a while and see how it does. I'll make an offer to one of the sellers of the red one and see if he takes it.

Here we go with the red again. I think you’re just taunting me now.

It could be like the kid who gets these for his 12 year old birthday present: https://tinyurl.com/2fws5vpd

They may not be his favorite thing but (a) they were a present so (b) he's got no choice but to go out and put them on and like them and (c) if he has even one iota of cool about him he can have every kid on his block wishing they had some.

Not that I'm speaking from past experience. Nothing like that.

There was an open question the other day. It was something like "can you use GM parts in these?" Evidently so...at least you can use the distributor cap but only if you also use the GM rotor. This would allow/require you to use an external coil. Cap goes by STD:DR446T or BWD:C187P and rotor goes by DR319T. The rotor is shorter than the other and so is the distributor cap. The inside diameter of the GM cap appears to be a bit greater than 1mm (or 1/32") but the indexing square seems to be in the right spot and the rotor indexing spot is the same. The control module seems to be the same as the GM part also. I haven't run the engine with the different cap and rotor in place yet, however I think it should work roughly the same.