The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Another pushrod question

Ok so I pulled my rocker shaft and it’s so nasty and gummed up that I’m letting it soak before I can even disassemble it.
I removed the pushrods and I can not blow through them. Mine is a 1960 half ton truck engine so I assume I have solid lifters. So do the pushrods even need the holes in them? I’m gonna clean them all anyway so really I’m just curious.
However, how do you get #12 pushrod out?? Do I have to remove the lifter cover and remove it from the bottom? If so I’ll just try to clean it in situ.
Thanks!

Pushrods are not drilled, oil is supplied to rocker arm shaft via drilled passage in block & head, tube to hollow rocker shaft with12 holes in it to feed rockers. As far a the #6 exhaust Pushrod, the only time I've removed one in the rig the head was coming off. Used a close pin to hold to Pushrod up in the head.
Not sure that the Pushrod would come down & out with the lifter cover off / head on.
That being said I don't see a reason to remove pushrods.
I'd remove the distributor & spin the oil pump, see if you get oil dripping from rockers.

Thanks BC. That #12 pushrod can just stay there then. I do in fact know that oil is not getting to the tops of the rockers and that the pushrods are spinning because I’ve had the valve cover off while running. I’m amazed at how quiet they were, if one didn’t look for themselves they’de never suspect it.
Thanks!

Stovebolts seem to have a way of creating gummy residue crap all over the rocker arms, even with modern oil and good maintenance. I think it’s some chemical/physical outcome from the crankcase vapors.

You’re on the right track. While you have the rocker assembly apart, might want to inspect for wear of the shaft and the rocker tips. The aforementioned spinning of the oil pump with a drill is a good idea to verify a clear path for the oil. I’d probably do it both before and after reinstalling installing the rocker assembly. There’s a lot of weird, year to year, change in that oiling path. And it’s quite common for mismatched, incompatible parts to have been installed over the engine’s many decades of use.

Sludge and gummy films are likely present in other parts of your engine as well. Some here recommend a running “flush” by adding some diesel to overfill the crankcase and running several minutes at a high idle and no load. I have successfully done it, but I also know if freaks some people out. Ask more questions before you decide for yourself.

There's a sneaky way to clean out a gummed up internal oil passageway on the later model engines that don't have a steel oil line going to the oil connector at the center of the rocker shaft. Remove the head bolt adjacent to the middle of the rocker shaft, and make a hardwood dowel that's a snug slip fit in the bolt hole. A piece of broomstick whittled down and sanded down in a drill press works well. Fill the bolt hole with oil, slip the dowel into the hole, and smack it HARD with a BFH. The hydraulic pressure will blow sludge and debris out of the oil passage under the head bolt, and improve oil flow to the rocker shaft. Back in the dark ages, Lisle used to sell a tool to do that, but a piece of broomstick was cheaper and did the same job. They also work well for clutch disc aligning tools. No wonder all the brooms in my shop had short handles!
Jerry

A 235 I have came to me with an "overhead oiler to compensate for the sludged up factory passage. It was a copper tube running from the oil pressure sender fitting up over the valve cover to the once-plugged hole at the center of the head above the spark plugs. How well this worked I can't say as the rocker shaft was pretty trashed by the time I got it but there was oil getting to the rockers.

Sounds like the ole boy did bypass surgery on a dead patient. Closed the barn door after the horses got out.

That external oil line conversion was pretty common on Ford V8s in the 1950s and early 60s. The cam bearings on those engines had a habit of turning in the block slightly and shutting off the normal oil flow to the cylinder heads.
Jerry

Ok guys I spent the weekend cleaning up my rockers. Every one of the holes in the rockers was plugged so I ran a tiny pipe cleaner through them. Took a steel brush and gasoline to everything. Reassembled and they are moving nicely in the shafts, in my hands. I’ve yet to reinstall on the engine.
I made a pump primer from a screwdriver . I removed the head bolt adjacent to the oil tube hole. Spun the heck out of the pump, and after awhile got oil coming up the the bolt hole and the oil tube hole. Yay! However, once I reinstalled the bolt I can’t get oil to the oil tube hole any more. How does this work? Should that head bolt have a passageway? It does not. I wonder if someone removed the head and mixed up the bolts? I snapped a pic just because, let’s see if it works.
I still don’t know how #12 pushrod is supposed to be removed🧐.
I appreciate all the response!
J

On certain combinations of cylinder heads, blocks, and rocker arm assemblies, there was a drilled head bolt in the center position. It's an easy modification, as the hole in the bolt only needs to be about 1/16" in diameter. Center drill the bolt to just above the threaded part, and cross drill a hole to intersect it. Another method is to grind a narrow groove in the head bolt threads to let the oil pass through. The factory bolt has a slot across the head that resembles a big straight slot screw.

Quit obsessing about that last pushrod, unless you're willing to remove the cylinder head to get it out. That's the only way it's going to happen.
Jerry

Facts don't change!

Did you clean out the inside of the rocker shafts?

Look at the other short head bolts. Perhaps one of them is the factory-drilled bolt, which was also supplied with a kit when early rockers were installed on a late engine, or was it vise versa? Anyhow, that bolt has a mark on the head indicating that it's the drilled one. Maybe the PO wasn't careful and mixed up the bolts and you still have the drilled one.

That mark is a slot about 1/8" wide that goes across the bolt head. It resembles a wide straight blade screwdriver slot.
Jerry

Thanks guys. All the bolts look the same, no slots.

Well, I tried to drill out the head bolt, got most of way then the bit broke. So I took the easy way and ground a groove in the threads . Then I reassembled the rocker shaft and spun the bejesus out of the oil pump with my drill and custom screw driver. I got oil bubbling up from the holes in the rear rocker shaft but not the front. Hmm. Pulled the shaft again. The front shaft had the rocker oil holes facing down, while the rear did not. I had reassembled it just the way it came out ( I am positive because I had left one tower on the shaft that was stuck). So, I reinstalled it with the holes facing up, and viola, oil from the rockers!
I can only assume that someone long ago had flubbed it on reassembly.
So after much toil I now have oiling rockers! Thanks to everyone!

You’re making great progress. Good Job!

The holes in the shaft are supposed to point down. Getting a big squirt of oil from those spit holes hitting the valve cover will make for low oil pressure in the bottom end, and lots of leaks from flooding the valve cover gasket. There are times when "more" is definitely not "better". A tiny trickle of oil from the spit holes is all that's needed, particularly at idle speed. Some people fancy themselves to be smarter than the engineers who designed that system almost a hundred years, and several million engines ago.
Jerry

Smart is as smart does. I now have oil out of my rockers. I saw on the web somewhere that the holes should face down, but my shafts were flipped and the wrong one was oiling. I may take another look at things when I get more hours on it and get some hot oil pumping through things. Those genius engineers designed an oiling system that would guarantee countless future discussions, is what they designed😉

Jerry is right the holes face downward. In the present state, you wouldn’t generate enough oil pressure to lubricate your crank shaft bearings properly. Running the engine in this state could cause catastrophic damage.

Some people learn by reading- - - -others learn by doing. The successful ones are willing to profit by others' mistakes. Those of us who do that are definitely in the minority, but I've spent 65 years correcting other people's mistakes, and made a pretty good living at in the process.
Jerry

If you have the holes in the shaft facing upwards, but oil only dribbles from the holes in the top of the rocker arms, this would indicate that you have lack of sufficient oil flow from the block to the oil distributor at the center of the rocker arms.
If you had sufficient oil pressure to that point, oil would be shooting out of the top of the rockers arms.
I recommend that you investigate blockages below the rocker arm distributor.

He said he only got dribbles when the holes were facing the right way - down. Now that he has them backwards- holes up, he says he's getting lots of oil.

Dribbles are ALL that's needed- - - - -the only reason the rocker arm weep holes are there is to provide a LITTLE lubrication to the valve stems. Some people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves, I guess!
Jerry

I said I got zero oil out of the tops of my rockers on the shaft half with the holes pointing down, and dribbles on the shaft half facing up. This is how the truck came to me, with mismatched shafts. So I put the non-dribbling shaft to holes up, and now I have dribbles everywhere. It’s not a spurt by any means, just a very healthy dribble. I don’t think it’s at a volume that would compromise my lower end.
My oil pressure gauge reads 30-35 lbs. I can’t tell you where said gauge plumbs into. I need to find out so I have an idea of how much pressure is getting to my bottom end. I plan to run the engine another time or two and keep an eye on oil flow from the rockers.
Thanks again guys.

Either way, install the holes facing down - as designed by the manufacturer - and move on. Don't second guess what is supposed to be compared to what you think it should be.

These engines run for 50 or 60 years or more when they're assembled the way they were designed. Turn the holes facing down as intended and don't worry about it and move on to the next phase of your restoration.

"Go censored up a rope. I’d rather blow my engine up than listen to your blowhard self throwing your salt around."

Direct quote from a private message I just received.
Jerry

Gents/Jerry --

We can't compel people to follow sound advice. Tell 'em what they need to hear and if they follow it, great! If they don't, oh well, you tried. All we can do is point out the error so the next new guy won't make the same mistake. When his engine fails catastrophically because of oil starvation issues, I doubt he'll let us know.

All *I* know is that we followed your guidance and advice to the letter and the end result is a fantastic running 261. Shoot, even *Otto* agrees with you. That's huge. If someone doesn't want to follow your advice, their loss.

At any rate, don't take it personally. As Jesus said to His disciples in Matthew 10:14 (I prefer the NIV)"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet." He didn't say to call down fire on them or anything, just move on.

And that's what we need to do here.

Push rods go in with the weep holes down.

So endeth the lesson.

Peace, love, out.

JM