The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Carburetor Identification -- Rochester B-Series

On the new Tech Tip, Carburetor Identification -- Rochester B-Series, posted on 01/02/24 in Tech Tips Forum- Engine, I have a question. For restoration purposes, does anyone make reproduction tags for Rochester B carburetors?

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Can one infer from this that we cannot obtain a duplicated or replacement ID tag for a Rochester B carburetor?

It seems like if anyone here knows the answer to that, it would be Carbking.

The B that came off my truck has its tag. The tag number matches the model carb that it would have come with, and the date code matches the truck's build timeframe based on model year and casting dates I remember seeing on other parts. If you're just looking for a tag that does the same for your truck, maybe you can scour ebay or swap meets for the right model number B. Take the tag and resell the carb if you don't want/need extra parts sitting around. Or maybe someone here has an appropriate tag on a spare they'd part with.

With a one minute search I found a vendor that custom makes/sells the tags on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254141503701

Mike B

After I posted I went to eBay and found this.


I don't know how correct it is- my 1950 tag is brass.

Thanks for the eBay references. I found it too. EchoBravoSierra brings up a good point; Some are brass.

Maybe CarbKing will have something to add.

Rochester carburetor made by a company called Bayward. What the heck is that?

www.ebay.com/itm/126221781247

FYI
Everything after the ? In the links is optional data tracking information so eBay knows who and where the people visiting their site came from

This link is sufficient and doesn’t spy on us:

www.ebay.com/itm/126221781247

That's good. Is it always the same? Delete from the "?" on?

I got rid of all that stuff now.

Yes, in any link you can delete the "?" and beyond. The rest is trackers by definition.

BAYWORD-Auto Parts: Markets Made in China reproductions of vintage auto parts: BAYWORD-Auto Parts. See "About" on the eBay site.

Carburetor tags

Carburetor tags have been made at least from: aluminum, brass, and cardboard (yes Virginia, early Carter tags were red cardboard, guess how long they lasted )

Rochester's first tags (1949) were brass.

At some time in the mid-1950's, Rochester changed tag material to anodized aluminum. I have NO official document as to EXACTLY when this occurred, but judging from my original tag collection, 1956 seems to be a transition year. In fact, I have some 1956 tags that are brass and some that are anodized aluminum with the same carburetor number. At least in March of 1956, brass was still being used.

Someone came up with the idea to "color code" the anodized aluminum tags, to make installation at the factory easier. At some time a "plant code" a.k.a. "picking code" was implemented.

So each carburetor was assigned a two-character code and a color. When the engine build sheet came down the assembly line, it had boxes for carburetor, distributor, etc. These boxes contained the picking code. The large bins containing these accessories had a large painted board at the front of the bin; guess what color the board was painted. If you guessed the carb tag color, you win the prize. So the carburetor installer would look at the build sheet and come up with a carburetor code. He/she would then find the bin with that code; pull a carburetor from the bin, and check that the tag color matched the board color.

Some of you may have seen Q-Jets (no, not on stovebolts), beginning in 1965 with Chevrolet. In 1966, California smog emission laws took effect. So the round dime-sized tags that were used on Federal carburetors had a small ROUND hole in the center, and the California carburetors had a small SQUARE hole in the center.

As far as reproduction tags:

This is a slippery slope from a legal standpoint. I have the ability to recreate the tags, but won't for ala carte sale. When I was still restoring carburetors, I did reproduce the tag AS A PART OF THE RESTORATION. A discussion with my attorney discouraged me from EVER selling reproduction tags ala carte.

I have looked at a lot of reproduction tags on Ebay. There is a squirrel selling Q-Jets tags that are all the same color, with square holes FOR ALL Q-Jet numbers that had tags. These are correct for only one single California carburetor. While these could be useful for carburetor identification if one has a faulty memory; they certainly would lose the maximum deduction for carburetor if the vehicle were entered into points-judging show.

I have pictured 4 tags: the Carter cardboard, brass, copper (Rochester used this to denote modifications), and aluminum.

If you look at the tags:

Brass produced in May of 1951
Copper produced August of 1967, inspected by inspector number 60, and had an engineering change level of "B"
Aluminum produced October of 1962 and inspected by inspector number 84

Jon

Carbking,

Thank you for the very useful Tag information. Very informative and provides us with great working knowledge.

The slippery slope about tag reproductions and legal implications is understood.

For members: if anyone has a box of spare tags, I'll be looking for a Rochester B carburetor tag 7004468 for a 1955 1st Series 3100. Might be wishful thinking, but worth a try.

Okay, allow me to be the Devil's Adjective (irregardless of all intensive purposes).
How would one know which reproduction tag to put on a Model B which did not have the old one by which to identify it?
Wouldn't that be a problem for the next guy looking for correct rebuild kit?

I love how you used all those grammatical errors in one sentence. That's hilarious. (should have used porpoises, though)

More info

Jon

Pump the breaks, Carl. Seems like a mute point to me.

One more post for me in this thread, and probably not going to be a popular post, as the information is not what most wish to hear:

These carburetors missing tags CAN be identified! I can identify them (well, I could have, before I got rid of all my B castings), and if I can, I am sure others can as well.

The problem is, if the carburetor cannot be identified by a stamped number in the throttle body, or the casting information I sent to John who has subsequently posted; then the individual must cross a special bridge from the state of rebuilding to the state of restoration.

This bridge has a name; its name is MONEY!

Probably half the cost of restoring a 6 cylinder Chevy carb, or more commonly, a flathead V-8 Ford carb is documention and research.

Why these two? Because carburetors (the Rochester B with the Chevy and the Stromberg "97" and Holley "94" with the Fords) enjoyed LONG production runs with multiple changes in castings, calibrations etc.

After doing a restoration on one Rochester B for a good customer of other carburetors, I quickly decided I could not charge enough to break even, let alone make money; but I have done loads of the Ford carbs.

Enter the commercial "rebuilder" into the picture

So today, the commercial "rebuilder" is going to "rebuild" Chevrolet 6 235 and 261 carburetors (from the "rebuilders" standpoint, these are interchangeable). Whatever the number required of these IN ALL YEARS IN WHICH THE CASTINGS ARE SIMILIAR are disassembled; throttle shafts go in a basket, throttle bodies go in a different basket, bowls in a third basket, and so on. The parts in the baskets are cleaned, bulk parts such as gaskets, pumps, fuel valves, jets, etc., are acquired from the "rebuilders" bins and laid out in an assembly line. The fuel valve will be the largest orifice used in any of these carburetors; the main metering jet will be the largest used in any of these carburetors. The baskets go down the assembly line, a part is removed from each basket, and a carburetor is assembled.

When doing the Ford carbs, we used to figure if we started with 10 "Holley" model 94's, there would probably be enough castings to correctly do 6 carburetors. If the source becomes 20 then maybe we would get 13.

So the above is the definition of the problem, how is it solved:

When restoring the carburetor, the restorer first completely disassembles the carburetor. Now the Rochester factory bill-of-materials for the carburetor in question is located; and body part number are written down, and new old stock bodies are checked from the restorers inventory to see that the casting numbers are correct. This doesn't mean the casting is correct, but it is a start. If not, the proper castings must be found. Now all machined calibrations (idle tubes, idle bleeds, restrictors, etc. are MEASURED, and compared against the bill of material. At this point, castings are cleaner, steel items are cleaned, and factory finishes (the body is zinc chromate, the screws, depending on year will be black oxide or yellow zinc) appliced. Finally, CORRECT main metering jets, fuel valves with the proper orifice, pumps, gaskets, etc. are removed from and the carburetor is reassembled; and a new reproduction tag (stamped out by the restorer) is applied to the carburetor.

I have probably forgot something, but the main points I would like to stress: (1) factory documentation is crucial, and (2) an inventory of new old stock parts for comparison is equally crucial.

And please remember, I no longer perform this work.

From a history standpoint:

In the 1930's, commercial rebuilders (note: no quotes) rebuilt carburetors starting with only the same numbered carburetor. Why did this change? Again, money. As cars began to last longer, the FLAPS had to have increasing larger invertories (read larger buildings and more cost). The FLAPS costs were passed on to their customers who complained about the costs. So enter a couple of "rebuilders" that started "grouping" carburetors; and cut-rate auto parts stores that started selling these cheaper units. And the rest is history.

Jon

Interesting summary and thanks for the detailed information. Today's challenge would be to find a carburetor rebuilder/restorer with the means, incentive and motivation to accomplish all that is described here.

Meanwhile, my 1955 1st Series 3100 runs well with its Rochester B. All it needs is the correct tag.