This is a 235 year not known yet old school 50 plus years in the industry building engines Going to pick this up next weekend Can somebody break this sheet down for me please Thanks
The parts list looks good- - - -depending on the skill of the rebuilder, it's probably OK. I'd be a little concerned with running hydraulic lifters, as the vast majority of the new ones available today have a really bad failure rate. I just bought the last hydraulic lifter stovebolt cam Melling had in stock, but I plan to get it reground to the solid lifter profile for the 261/Corvette cam, the Melling CCS-1. According to a conversation I had a couple of days ago with the tech support gut at Melling, they have 350 of the CCS-1 cams on backorder, waiting for a foundry to cast some cores to grind. He has no idea when that's going to happen. I have two brand new cams on hand, a Melling CCS-1 and an Elgin E-293S. I'm using them as patterns so a cam regrinder can make a master cam for reconditioning good condition used cams. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
The world's best builder can't compensate for junk parts, even if it's new junk. I've been building engines for 65 years, and I won't put my reputation at risk by putting a hydraulic cam in a stovebolt engine! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Is this parts list for the engine that you asked for help in identifying or a different engine altogether? I'm pretty sure the folks that replied in that thread identified it from what I can read. That would take the "unknown" factor out of the equation.
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
On any build sheet, I'd like to see some assembly records such as bearing and piston clearances, was the cam degreed in and valve-to piston clearance, etc. But at least from the parts list it looks good, ex the hyd lifters as per Hotrod's comment.
1951 3800 1-ton "Earning its keep from the get-go" In the DITY Gallery 1962 261 (w/cam, Fenton headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Missing your rear main seal, freeze plug set, oil pan gaskets, side cover gaskets, valve spring seals, intake and exhaust gaskets, valve cover gasket, water pump gasket, thermostat gaskets. Skip the head gasket set and the timing cover set and order a a felpro full gasket set.
You will also need a freeze plug, oil galley and rear cam core set.
On the head bolts, all these years, I have never seen any aftermarket head bolt sets. Where are these coming from, name and part number. I ask because there are no locating pins for the head on the block. The head bolts are shouldered and use that method to line the head up properly. Regular old small block Chevy bolts will not do the job.
You might need a speedy sleeve for the harmonic balance.
Have the machinist drill and tap the crank snout for a small block Chevy balancer bolt. The threaded snout makes it sooooo much easier to install the balancer and the bolt keeps it from wobbling off. These motors are pretty old now so let’s keep it together.
Intake and exhaust gaskets come in the full gasket set but if you want something better spring for the one piece Rimflex brand granite gasket. Way better.
Now, you are going to all this trouble, new pistons, rings, bearings, but no new oil pump?
Hydraulic lifters, the new lifters sold today are not so good. Lots of failures. Beat the bushes for a set of real gm hydraulic lifters, or a set of aftermarket lifters that are name brand, made in USA amd manufactured at least 35 years ago.
Just to follow up, DO NOT fail to install new core plugs. The two on the drivers side are under the manifolds and the one in the back requires pulling the motor to get at. I got a set of bronze ones for the last engine I did. They won't rust out; not that anyone my age has to worry about new steel ones rusting... just the same. These trucks will outlast most of us.
1951 3800 1-ton "Earning its keep from the get-go" In the DITY Gallery 1962 261 (w/cam, Fenton headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Tommy, where did you get the bronze ( or more likely brass) plugs for the big holes for the front and rear of the block? I've searched everywhere for them and can't find anyone who makes them. I'm about to decide to tool up and make a press fixture to make my own from from brass sheet stock. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
So it’s looking like this rebuilt 235 I was thinking about getting is missing the timing cover,oil pan,valve cover,side cover and not to mention the damper Anyone have a stash of these parts that might be for sale if I get that motor? Or should I just keep moving and not do it?? Any opinions appreciated Thanks
What evidence is there that the engine missing all those parts was "rebuilt"?
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy) 1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1956 Cadillac Sixty Special Fleetwood (The Godfather) | 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado (The Purple Knif) | 1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe | 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
Unless I have a very close relationship with the engine builder and trust his abilities without any doubts, I consider any engine I can't run before purchasing to be a "rebuildable core" and make an appropriate offer. Lot's of people think they're selling a Lamborghini V12 or something similar! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Let me just ask here. What exactly are you buying and from whom are you buying it from?
A 235 rebuilt engine from a local engine shop Shop built engine and customer never came back At first I was under the impression the engine was complete Just missing manifolds fly wheel and bell house Turns out it’s just a block and head built with new stuff No timing cover No dampener No side cover No valve cover No oil pan Etc etc etc If engine was more complete as I thought I could do the swap Quickly but with all the missing parts it’s more of a parts hunt and no longer a quick swap.
I don't know about that. If you have a machined and assembled short block (rods, pistons, cam), and a rebuilt head, and the price is reasonable, then its just a matter of purchasing a more or less complete core motor of the same era and grabbing all the sheet metal and accessories. You should be ahead of the game if the cost of the rebuilt engine and head are right.
I'm 100% with Jerry on this. I've bought engines like that...block and heads that were "rebuilt" only to find stuff didn't even get close to the right tolerances. And I mean terribly off. In fact the 235 I have now was in that condition when I got it. Example: Ring end gap ranged from .035" to .045". GM specs? .007" to .020". And that's just the first thing I noticed. At least back then you weren't spending an arm and leg. Today things are different. Good luck!
~ Jon 1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235 | T5 with 3.07 rear end
I don't know about that. If you have a machined and assembled short block (rods, pistons, cam), and a rebuilt head, and the price is reasonable, then its just a matter of purchasing a more or less complete core motor of the same era and grabbing all the sheet metal and accessories. You should be ahead of the game if the cost of the rebuilt engine and head are right.
$2K and builder is saying that’s not counting machine work or his labor that he’s loosing out in just wants the sell price to cover internal parts
You're looking at what we used to call a "long block"- - - -a rebuilt engine plus a cylinder head, without sheet metal or accessiroes like intake and exhaust, water pump, harmonic balancer, etc. Commercial rebuilders used to sell them "exchange"- - - -meaning the customer stripped the peripheral stuff off and turned in the used "rebuildable core" so the rebuilder could do it all over again. Badly damaged engines that couldn't be rebuilt or had to have major parts replaced resulted in an extra charge being made by the rebuilder. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I think he is over valuing the motor. New pistons are like 240 for 6 new pistons. Main bearings are in the 150 range, rod bearings are less so on the high side lets say 120, a freeze plug set is under 20, a timing set is no more then 80, and a new or reground cam 200 or less. So about 800 or less for parts for the block. The head, new intake and exhaust valves, if they were replaced to begin with, would be say 200, guides are less then 60, o ring seals are less then 20, springs are 150 on the high side. So for the head, assuming everything new, 430.
So parts for both, 1230 on the high side. If the motor is clean, not rusted or dirty from sitting, and he really wants to get it moving out of his shop, he will need to sharpen his pencil pretty good, at least in my opinion. He is going to take a hit but that is the way it goes sometimes.
I think he is over valuing the motor. New pistons are like 240 for 6 new pistons. Main bearings are in the 150 range, rod bearings are less so on the high side lets say 120, a freeze plug set is under 20, a timing set is no more then 80, and a new or reground cam 200 or less. So about 800 or less for parts for the block. The head, new intake and exhaust valves, if they were replaced to begin with, would be say 200, guides are less then 60, o ring seals are less then 20, springs are 150 on the high side. So for the head, assuming everything new, 430.
So parts for both, 1230 on the high side. If the motor is clean, not rusted or dirty from sitting, and he really wants to get it moving out of his shop, he will need to sharpen his pencil pretty good, at least in my opinion. He is going to take a hit but that is the way it goes sometimes.
Thanks to all for input thanks for helping me on this turning out to be stressful and really appreciate your breakdown dragsix so I send the engine builder a message that I’m going to pass on the engine and run what I have for now see what happens in the future Again thanks to all of you guys.
That would take the "unknown" factor out of the equation. 