The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay No spark. Then no starter.

In the fastener catagory, nothing on our old trucks needs anything but a lock washer or a cotter pin. A few things need torqued to spec. Any original locking device is kosher.
The split lock washer has been used on every car and truck for 100 years. Still used on new vehicles. Still works. No runs, no drips, no errors. Don't reuse if they are flattened or even slightly closed. MS35338.....I wrote that on drawings and parts lists about 40,000 times in 40 years....and that's for them flying machines.

Yabut those Mil spec lock washers are $6 a piece.

I was just referring to the threaded stud that goes into the bell housing. The nut didn't come loose. It just pulled out the stud from the bell housing.

Looks to be a 49-50 starter. See the clip from the 1950 parts book. Later books -1929-54 don't have that number, except in the supesession section saying "mixed with another number", whatever that means.

Thanks. Likely the starter that came with the truck when new.

The foot starter return spring on my truck is a regular coil spring with a single chain link on the end connecting to the return lever. It doesn't look stock to me but I don't know.

I'm not interested in originality, just that it works. As long as the spring returns the lever to the home position, does it matter how heavy or light the spring tension is or what shape the spring is?

If that works, use it. You can buy extension springs at the hardware store. You asked about light and heavy and tension. YES it matters but has allowable deviation.
You don't want real small wire size. The length has to work, The spring should not be completely closed, as the artist has shown, when pedal is up. Then it will extend, without over stressing, as pedal is pushed. Look at the pics and get an idea of the proportions compared to linkage and other parts in pic but that is not a photo, so..... anyway....
Oil the pivots. You see they have a swivel tab on one end of spring. Click

Otto, to add to what bartamos posted, if you want to check your spring, I measured my stock one. It has a compressed length of 3-1/4" (not including the end loops) and a tension of about 3-4 lb per inch when pulled with a fish scale. The diameter is roughly 1/2" OD and the wire size is approximately 1/16" (compared to a drill bit.) It's barely extended, maybe 1/2" when installed and in the relaxed position. If your spring is comparable, it'll work fine, like bartamos said. The loop on the end is the same diameter as the coils, and is a close fit on the stud on the pedal lever so it won't slip off easily. That one that bartamos posted might have a tendency to come off the stud, since it has open hook ends.

Good info Kevin. I just found the whole deal at Jim Cartrer for $7.30 and added to my post. Can't beat that.

Yeah, that'll probably work, the little link that goes on the starter end is probably the critical piece.
It helps to have the engine sitting on a stand in the garage. Makes it easy to go check stuff for guys that need info. One of these days (months?) it'll be installed and harder to access.

I think it is a necessary piece to rotate and keep spring axis normal to pull vector.

As you can see in my picture, I'm missing that little cam shaped piece. The spring is connected to that hole in the arm. That might explain why the chain link was used to take up the space of that missing piece.

Here's the new starter. I counted the teeth on the gear and it matches up with the original.

The starter drive is most likely correct, but the number of teeth does not guarantee that it is. Some (all?) of the 6v and 12v starters have the same number of teeth, but they do not interchange between 6v and 12v flywheels.

We need to assume if it is a 6V starter, it has the correct gear pitch. You could make some comparison measurements. But just slap it in there.

A drive gear for a 12V starter will not fit on a 6V armature- - - -the 6V has a bigger shaft. That shaft definitely looks like a 6V.
Jerry

I installed the new starter last week and it spun up just fine. I decided to keep the original 1949/50 starter for a future rebuild. $17.50 didn't seem like a high enough core charge to justify turning it in.

I also installed a new set of points set to .019". Take a look at these "old" ones. What happened to them? It looks like the contact from one arm is stuck to the other one. The truck ran and drove normally when it was parked. Approximately 6 weeks later this is what I found. What could have caused this by just sitting there?

I've never had this happen before. All my points driven vehicles have run for years and years without any problems. In fact, I think I've only put 3 sets of points in The Bismark in 22 years and over 100,000 miles.

Your condenser is shot. The condenser is what keeps the points from arcing as they open and welding together. When you stopped the last time, the points were hot enough that they landed closed and stuck together.

That surprising. It's a Jon Goodman special.

About 99.9% of the time, that's caused by accidentally leaving the ignition switch turned on with the engine stopped- - - -and the points closed. If the engine happens to stop with the points open, there won't be any damage. It only takes less than 15 minutes or "ignition on- - - -points closed- - - -engine stopped" to fry a set of points- - - - -sometimes a lot less.
Jerry

Well, anything is possible but that seems unlikely since the keys are not left in the ignition and the only one who had access to them was my mom.

The keys are kept in the house.

So who are you going to sell down the river? Jon or your Mom?

That's a good one.

I guess I'm just thinking out loud while I type. I'm trying to think if it was possible for the key to be left on for any period of time during the time the truck was parked and the time I went out there and tried to start it.

If the key is left on like that, doesn't it damage the coil as well?

I'm with Jerry... put a new set of points in and fire it up. My daughter tried to move my 54 3100 out of the shop last week and bumped into the S10 (2nd instead of reverse,) stalling it out. She freaked, jumped out of the truck and went home. About 15 minutes later we went back and the key was on and the points were toast. She cried. Thought she had ruined the truck. She watched me replace the points while I explained what had happened, then it fired right up. I keep 2 sets of points in the truck and 2 in the shop.

If the points fry before the coil melts down, the current stops flowing and the only damage is to the contacts. 6 volt coils have a tendency to survive an accidental key on episode better than 12V coils do.
Jerry

Truck was driven 40 miles and parked.

About a month later the I went out there, retrieved the keys from the house and started the truck normally. Used it to run several errands then parked it again. Keys were removed and put in the house with the rest of the car keys.

6 or 8 weeks later I went out again, got the keys from the house and couldn't get the truck started. That's when I began this thread.

There was no period from the time the truck was shut off to the time an attempt was made to start it that the keys were left in the ignition.

That's good to know.

Is the ignition switch original equipment, or maybe it has a lot of mileage on it? It might be possible that the switch didn't fully disconnect when the engine was run the last time. Not likely, but possible.

I would say that the switch is original. Virtually all of the wiring in the truck, with the exception of the new wiring from the dimmer switch to the headlights, is braided cloth insulated wire. The truck has never been restored and everything I've repaired or replaced seems to be 70 years old.

I'll look closely at the switch when I'm next out there. I don't remember it ever seeming loose or the key not fitting tightly in the slot.

If a connection has come adrift inside the switch, there could be an incorrect circuit being made even in the "off" position that keeps voltage present at the points.

Otto, time to fully upgrade or renew all electrical. Too many issues popping up. Unreliable. Piece meal is going to drive you crazy. Get new/rebuiilt/NOS electrical components and install modern or faux-old wiring for your rides. Faux real! You are proving you can have too many. Yo ....7 pre 72's... and you're naming them and everything. Enter a focus group or an intervention or (AA Automobiles Anonymous)

You're probably right.

What test can I perform to verify whether or not the ignition switch is providing power to the points in the off position?

Get a pigtail and rig up a light to the wire from the switch to the coil. You may have a ghost that intermittently keeps the wire hot when it thinks you aren't looking so keep it hooked up and play with the switch every now and then.

Rig up an LED that comes on anytime there's voltage on the wire to the coil. If it stays lit with the switch in the off position, you've got a voltage leak somewhere. LED's draw a LOT less current than a regular light bulb.
Jerry

You need to start with a parasitic draw test. That will test the whole truck. You would cycle various switches to catch a intermittent issue also, while watching multimeter. More finite measurement than watching a light bulb. If you see a leak/draw, even in the milliamp range, and cycling things on and off does not identify, then you begin wire disconnection one at a time while watching meter.

Install meter in series with negative battery post and cable. Set DC mA.

I rigged the illumination light bulb on the ignition switch to come on when the ignition is on. (It normally comes on when the headlights come on.)
I had a problem with a faulty reproduction ignition switch which stayed 'on' with the switch in the 'off' position and the key in my pocket.
That resulted in my Pertronix module frying, and my coil to melt, allowing all of the oil to pour out of it.
I don't use Pertronix any longer, but I am now jaded, but safe rather than sorry.