The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1957 235

C'mon now, lol. Just go to Home Depot and get the right tool before you hurt yourself. $17.00


https://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERBU...3ba11f6a510150b7d6aa4a8&gclsrc=3p.ds

That `ll work, but home depot is 45 miles away.
Besides the carriage bolt worked great!
I`ll be using the trans guide bolts too.

My bell housing has 2 holes to mount to frame.
My old mounts from my 58 only have 1 and larger diameter bolt.
Where can I find the rubber motor pads with 2 holes? Or just use the ones I have
with 1 smaller diameter bolt.

The bellhousing with two bolt motor mounts are car, the single bolt motor mounts are truck...you have a passenger car bellhousing.

Mike B

Yes, I figured that out. How can I use on my truck?
Will I need a truck bell housing?

The Car and truck bell housing mounts are very different...car bolts to the side of the crossmember and truck saddles it. I've never tried to do what you're trying to do...maybe others will chime in with what to do?

Mike B

sent you a PM

Thanks DaveV. Got the engine in today. Man, even with the fan off
it was a tight fit down there. I`m glad there is no radiator to worry about.
I need some wire(I have a prewire set) , bench test starter, Odds and ins left.
I`ll need to go thru a pre- start checklist with you guys. I know DIST orientation.

Oil pump priming, carb and throttle linkage ,I might need some help with.

Anyone aware of a set of radiator hoses for my engine?
235. stock rad.

Rock Auto lists both upper and lower radiator hoses for '57 235 truck.

Available radiator hoses for 1957 235

The AC Delco hoses use Gates's images. You'll save $8 buying Gates instead of AC Delco.

Thanks Otto!! I`ve used the flex hose before. That'll work.
RA is a few dollars cheaper than most.

The Gates hoses are the correct molded hoses. They look a lot cleaner than the ribbed flex hoses.

Ill try the gates. Got the 3 speed warner trans in today.
Man, those headless bolts to guide the trans in is a great idea.
I cut slots in the top to be able to back them out after the
lower bolts were in, but they unbolted easily by hand.

2 questions.
I have an engine to frame ground strap. Where is a good location?
My grounding situation is this...I have the starter grounded at the lower bolt and
to the chassis with the ground strap. But because I put a new floor in the truck,
to be safe I ran a black battery ground wire from there(Chassis strap) to the short battery ground strap.
Knowing this I guess my 2nd question is , should I run that ground (Engine to frame) strap to the
engine or bell housing?

Every time the starter current passes through another connection it creates the possibility of corrosion, resistance, and poor cranking speed. Ground the big cable from the battery to the bell housing as close as possible to the starter. Then the braided ground is just for decoration, or to provide a ground path for lights, heater motor, gas gauge, or other low current draw accessories.

Chevy used the "baby chicken" approach to grounding- - - -short braided ground straps are "CHEEP- - - -CHEEP- - - -CHEEP" compared to a long, heavy cable from the battery box to the bell housing!
Jerry

@Guitarplayer - the 'best' grounding will be to accommodate the highest current flow - that rule counts for both the Positive and the Negative current paths.
Your starter is far and away the highest current, so you ideally want the lowest impedance between the starter body and the battery negative.
The next highest current consideration would be for the Headlights. Beyond that currents drop off considerably.
So plan accordingly with that simple rule.
I would personally go Battery Negative to Bellhousing, and then from there to frame - that is indeed what Chevy did with my 51 with battery under the passenger floor
But also fine would be Battery to Frame (since it is such a large conductor in its own right) and from Frame to BH
Without any compex electronics sensitive to ground voltage drops or loops, you don't really have much to worry about with a vintage truck and it's not going to make a lot of difference whatever scheme you use.
On the 235 config in the donor car (58 DelRay) the battery was located in front right and the battery negative lead directly to the front of the head.

Hmmm.. there aren't any bellhousing bolts to engine
I can access. There is the bottom starter mount bolt.
But that would put it on the starter flange. Certainly not between the starter and bell housing?
This is where I am at. The wire from the coil goes to which terminal on the stater?

That grungy-looking braided strap attached to the lower starter stud needs to be trashed- - - -they have a nasty habit of developing a poor connection and/or corrosion between the braid and the sheet metal cover on both ends. Attach a #0 insulated battery cable to the same bolt and the negative battery post. Then either run a NEW braided strap, or a #6 or #8 wire from anywhere on the engine (like a side cover screw, for instance) to the frame, and another one from the engine to the cab sheet metal. Those smaller grounds serve to provide low resistance and low current grounds for stuff like lights and instruments, heater blower, electric wipers if equipped, etc.

The "I" terminal on the solenoid cover needs to be wired to the upstream side of the coil, opposite the wire that goes to the distributor. That big purple wire that's on there now should probably be attached to the small stud on the engine side of the solenoid- - - -the one marked "S" on the solenoid cover. That's assuming it's got voltage when the key is in the "start" position or the starter button is pushed- - - -whichever starting system you have.
Jerry

IF that small RED wire on top of the coil is connected to the "-" negative terminal then it goes to the distributor stud (where you have a missing/broken wire).

The GREEN wire on the coil should be on the "+" terminal and should go to one side of the Ballast Resistor AND down to the starter solenoid "I" terminal as Jerry said. This is the resistor by-pass wire that puts full battery voltage on the coil while cranking the engine. The other side of the Ballast Resistor goes the the key switch.

Mike B

I REALLY appreciate you guys help.
I am by myself most of the time
and limited knowledge about this. Only going on what I had to work with
when I got the motor. I am close to starting it. Dan Timm came over to the house and
found TDC for me. Taking my time though.
I`ll get to work on it today!! We will have a high of 70 degrees .

Pic of what I have. I don`t see an "I" terminal.
Just R and S . Looks like i need to put the purple wire on the other terminal.

..

Refresh my memory, have you had the truck running since you wired it up the way it is in this picture? If you have, then we don't want to confuse you with info not needed.

Mike B

Some solenoids have an "I" terminal (ignition). Others have an "R" terminal (resistor). Either way, the big wire goes to the inboard terminal (S) of the solenoid cover to carry the current needed to energize the solenoid. The surge current needed for the "pull-in" winding to overcome the tension of the return spring approaches 50 amps for a fraction of a second. It's usually a purple wire if you have a factory wiring harness, or an accurate color code repop. Or you can just ignore the advice of some of us who have "been there- - - -done that" for several decades.
Jerry

Never ignore someone of your knowledge. Jerry and Mike.
Yes, I have M & H Electric Fabricators wiring kit. Made in USA.
I have the ground hooked up as you described and am wondering can I use
the breather tube mounting bolt to ground the engine?

I have not ran the engine. I`m hoping it starts where it left off....running.
Previous said it did. Fingers crossed. I see no reason it should`nt start.
I`ll take my time for sure. Once this is done ,I can move my way around to the throttle linkage.

Do you think the breather tube mount bracket will suffice for ground from frame to engine?

I haven't been following all this but I see on your photo you need to reverse the wires on the S&r terminals.
That bracket bolt will may be used for the ground cable. Be sure & clean up the contact surfaces & use a lock washer. You may need a longer bolt.

George

Thanks. Yes I switched the wires from what the photo shows.
Also on the bracket bolt. Good idea to clean that surface up.

All right! Longer bolt ,lock washer. Grounds to frame pic.
The resistor to coil..the green wire . Spliced yellow wire to reach the coil.
The wiring kit is for an 8 cly.
Tell me what looks wrong. thanks

.

The GREEN wire on the coil should be on the "+" terminal and should go to one side of the Ballast Resistor AND down to the starter solenoid "I" terminal as Jerry said.

Mike B [/quote]
Then there would be 2 wires coming off the "+" terminal at the coil?
One to the resistor and one to the "R" on the solenoid?

The engine is as "grounded" as it's ever going to be with the negative battery cable at the starter housing. That draft tube bolt would be a good place to attach small diameter ground wires from the cab and the frame. That bypasses all the rubber mounts- - - - -engine, bell housing, cab, etc. so the lights, instruments, radio, and heater blower have a good ground. "It ain't rocket surgery!" All of the electrical circuits need a clean, low resistance path back to the (-) side of the battery. It's also a good idea to attach a ground wire between the bed and the frame so the tail lights and turn signals aren't searching for a ground and causing problems.
Jerry

Yes, the GREEN wire running from the Ballast Resistor to the coil "+" terminal provides the coil with reduced voltage once the engine is running. A second GREEN wire running from the "R" terminal on the solenoid to either end of the first GREEN wire (connect it at the ballast resistor or the coil "+" terminal), this puts FULL voltage on the coil during start up. Looking at your picture it looks like you have the correct setup with the green wires at the ballast resistor.

As for your grounds, there are lots of shadows in the pictures making it hard to see what's going on, but you should have a #2 gauge wire min with #0 better running from the battery to the engine block as close to the starter as possible. Then I like to have a #4 wire from the block to the frame and a second #4 wire from the block to the cab/sheet metal. Looks like you might have gone to the frame first...hard to see.

Also, what's up with the taped spliced green wire under the battery...what is it connecter to??? Crimp Butt Splice connectors with heat shrink sleeves makes a much cleaner connection...tape can unravel over time in the hot engine compartment causing issues down the road.

Since someone else installed the harness I'd be reviewing every inch of it to be sure it's done right, it would be a shame to burn it up because you assumed he did it correctly. Just trying to make sure you keep the smoke in the wires!

Mike B

Thanks. I am the installer with no one round really.
I`ve done 2 other rewires but those were rewire kits for dummies. With everything numbered.
This takes a little more thought.
The green wire spliced was because that heat shrink sleeve was too short. (8 cyl coil on the other side?)
I am using that at the coil.
The ground(s) are as Jerry described. Battery post to starter(lower bolt). Frame to chassis(upper post) and frame to motor(breather mount).

Does that sound right?

Using this, I have the plug wires on.

The firing order is right, 1-5-3-6-2-4, but be sure the #1 wire is positioned over the rotor when the #1 cylinder is on the top of the compression stroke. (Both valves closed, piston at the top of its stroke. It doesn't matter which cap tower gets the #1 plug wire, but the rotor MUST be pointed at the right wire when the cylinder is ready to fire.

Here's an idiot-proof method of finding the right spot to start the sequence :

Remove the valve cover

Watch the valve springs on the #6 cylinder (NOT #1)

Turn the engine clockwise from the front, using the fan with the spark plugs removed, or roll the truck forward with the transmission in high gear.

Watch the #6 exhaust valve spring (last one in line back by the firewall. When it compresses fully, and then relaxes, start watching the intake valve (next one in line- - -second from the firewall). When you see it BARELY start to move- - - -STOP!

Take the distributor cap off- - - -whichever cap tower the rotor is pointing toward is #1- - - -start the firing order there and follow clockwise- - - -5-3-6-2-4.

This method works EVERY TIME!
Jerry

Thanks Jerry!!!!!
Here maybe are some throttle linkage parts. My pic from before the motor
is out shows different.
IDK if you can see it clearly or not but it appears not factory with all those springs.
Looks like 2 rods for linkage.

Nope . Found the original linkage.

This air cleaner fit my carb.

Guitplayer,

Am guessing your above post was meant to go with one of your other trucks (with the 327's)???

Unless you radically changed carbs on your 235, that is - lol!

Is there a different thread this reply was meant to go to???

Dan

All for the 235. Here is a pic. Jon G was looking for one for me. I am soon to try and fire it up.
Waiting on some exhaust pipe . Tune up the throttle return spring with something
else. If the exhaust flange hits the spring. Its full of oil ,coolant.
Last little bit of wiring to start.