The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 fuel pump cam lobe Failure

Recently my 38 216 broke down and after much poking around and testing I discovered that the fuel pump was no longer pumping fuel. I replaced the fairly new pump with a new one with the same result. Looking at the arm on the pump that I removed, only a small amount of paint was worn away on the arm and the contact area with the cam was less than a third of the available width. I haven't examined the cam lobe yet but I am assuming that there is some extreme wear there. I installed an electric fuel pump to get me back on the road but I am curious to find out if this is a common failure. It is definitely a new experience for me.

Been there done that.

Don't blame your cam (as I did). Your fuel pumps are absolute garbage right out of the box. The laborers in China are slapping this stuff together with absolutely no quality control.

Buy an original mechanical pump and have it rebuilt by Then & Now Automotive.

Here's the thread (with pictures) I started about my problem which is identical to yours (short lived new pump, brand new pump doesn't work at all, pump arm worn in only 1/16" of it's entire width).

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...umps-and-other-nonsense.html#Post1463250

Read the first page and then skip to page 6 if you're interested. The secondary, unrelated problem turned out to be debris in the carburetor.

Use an inspection mirror and a bright light to inspect the lobe on the cam. DO NOT stick a finger into the hole and crank the engine! It would also be possible to rig a dial indicator to the block to measure the lobe lift, but turn the engine by hand, not with the starter, to do that test.
Jerry

What brand fuel pumps were the ones you used? I think all these are made in the same place regardless of brand name.

I will be checking the lobe more closely and testing the pumps by hand. However for now, I need the car to be on the road so I will be driving it with the electric pump operating.

I am leaning now towards the imported product problem. Maybe my good old cam isn't the bad guy here. My new pump is a NAPA brand pump, engineered by Carter and made in China. (I think that is OK to say that!) Now I have to find an original type pump.

My glass bowl style pump now has over 3000 miles on it since installation last August.

Find one on ebay and send it to Then & Now Automotive for a rebuild.

The clear fuel filter on my 216 has recently shown full when I start out but it shows about a 1/4” along the bottom when I arrive at my destination. The engine also seems to be starved for fuel. The fuel pump is a few years old but does not have many miles on it. The temperature hasn’t been hot enough for a possible vapor lock. I’m thinking that the pump is on it’s way out.

If it's a new pump, it's probably junk. Test it. Fuel pressure at the carburetor should be between 2 psi and 4 psi.

Output should be a little less than 1oz per squirt of the pump.

I have replaced the old replacement fuel pump with two new Carter fuel pumps. The first one pumped nothing, not even from a test can to ensure that the problem was from the pump. The second is not pulling fuel either. I have turned the engine over by hand and felt the cam lobe. I'm doubtful that the lobe is terribly worn, that just doesn't seem likely. The old replacement pump had little travel in the arm. these by Carter seem to have excessive travel before the pump is engaged. And this is comparing them to an old original. I'm thinking it may just be wiser to install an electric pump. What pressure should I consider with an 216?

If those "Carter" pumps are less than 20 years old or so, they're Carter in name only. No matter what name is on the box, Carter, Airtex, etc., they're all made in the same slave labor sweatshop in some third world country across the Pacific ocean. There are a couple of USA rebuilders who rehab the old pumps that are assembled with screws to OEM quality standards, with alcohol-resistant rubber parts.
Jerry

So this mirrors my experience with two "Carter designed pumps". Both were failing on me. I installed an electric inline pump to get me back on the road. recently I replaced the pump with a new Spectra pump. It looks quite different with a chunkier body. I had to use longer bolts to install it. It seems to work fine with the electric pump turned off. As an aside. I used the same brand on my Ford Y block and it works perfectly.

Try a Carter P4070. Its design goes back years, originally designed for a military application. I have been using them since I started with all this car nonsense, 47 years ago lol.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4070

The summit ad says 4-8 pounds of pressure, yea I have never ever seen one go more then 6 with most in the 4-5 range which is perfect. No regulator needed. One thing, these Carter electric pumps use the fuel to cool the pump internally. So you need to install a filter before the pump. Otherwise, any junk in the tank or fuel that gets sucked in will jam the pump. For example

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-gf952

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230102

Carter also sells a rubber isolator kit to keep vibrations down to a minimum.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-18-14U

Safety wise you want to consider installing a carter fuel pump pressure switch. When installed and wired as designed, the pump gets voltage during cranking, then when the motor starts up, oil pressure keeps the circuit connected and the pump on. shut the motor off, or be involved in anything where the motor shuts off, as soon as the oil pressure drops, the switch does its thing, and the pump shuts off, automatically.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-A68301

Finally, you might consider using a fuel pump relay harness to eliminate any stress on the old wiring and to install another measure of safety.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-40205g

Seems like a little bit of work I know but in the end, these pumps are very reliable, long sorted out, and if installed and wired correctly, will give very good service, at least that has been my experience. In fact, I just did this very install for my son's 57 chevy with 261 motor, notwithstanding that I have run this exact set up in a couple of my vintage trucks and cars over the years.

\The new pumps are all garbage regardless of brand name. They're all made in the same place. You have to find a "real" fuel pump made in the USA 40-70 years ago and send it to Then&Now to be properly rebuilt.

You mention an old original pump. Do you have it? If so, send it out to be rebuilt. It will work.

The fuel pressure for the 216 should be 2psi-4psi. My pump puts out 2.5 psi.

Good news, the Carter fuel pumps were defective. I installed an aftermarket pump that more closely resembles one for a small block, just mounted upside down. It appears to be a Spectra. It works! I’m back in the saddle again!

Yep. Everything is pure junk today.

I strongly suggest, however, that you obtain an original or OEM replacement pump and have it rebuilt. The new one you just installed is going to fail sooner rather than later and you'll be in the same situation again.

I’m trying to persuade a friend who has a 1962 vehicle with a 235 who wants to V8 it that he should go ahead and sell me the 235 and put the money towards the cost of building the small block. Then I wouldn’t have to fool with this 216 anymore. Don’t get me wrong it’s a good engine, but I have a better geared rear end with Bendix brakes instead of Huck that is just itching to be installed so I can attain highway speeds. I also know that I will have to change the backing plates and other hardware for the Bendix front brakes. Therefore I don’t want to spend money unnecessarily.

Don't trash that 216 if you make the deal- - - - -I heard a rumor it wants to follow me home!
LOL!
Jerry

Jerry, I wouldn’t trash a good motor, and I might just possibly have you in mind if I decide to part with it. I still have another 216 sitting in my garage that I will probably never use. It was pulled from a truck and was running, then stashed in a barn. It’s date code says it’s a ‘47 model. I probably should have struck a deal with you when you were here picking up those transmissions.