The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Verses 261 Engine Which One Is Better?????

Looking to buy a 235 or a 261 engine was wondering if there is one better than the other and how much work would it be to remove a 216 engine from a 1953 Chevy pickup and installing a 235 or 361. Thanks to all!!!!

Marv.

Marv,

They are essentially the same engine, one is just slightly larger, thus more desirable in today’s traffic.

Ed

Need more specifics to give a better answer.
If the buying price was the same and both engines in about the same condition, buy the 261.
More cubes more horsepower.
235 and 261 share a lot of common parts but 261 specific parts are more expensive.
See the Tech Tips section for Engine Swap (216 to 235/261).

high pressure 235 vs (USA) 261 installed in a 1953 truck:

buoymaker gives good advice/response

please correct/amend the following list:

car 235s have hydraulic lifters
truck 235s have mechanical lifters
all USA 261s have mechanical lifters

you will be Pre-68 Dave's water pump relocator/adapter (and, most likely you original from motor-mount "plate")

depending on the year 235/261 the motor mounts will be different from the original-engine's

you should be able to use your radiator hose set-up on either

you would most likely have to do a little rerouting/bending of fuel lines on either

both will have larger exhaust/intake manifold ports compared to the 216

both will most likely need adapted/new fuel lines?

both can use your old clutch-housing/clutch-assembly/u-joint assembly and rear motor mounts

Went from a healthy running 235 to a healthy running 261 in my 53 1/2 ton. With the correct carb on the 261, it has a small noticeable power and torque increase at the seat of the pants.

FWIW ... The Holy Grail here is the 261 with the "3733950" casting code. This block was designed as an engine for the late AD trucks ('54 and '55 1st Series) and they are a form/fit/function replacement -- requires no modification. You will need parts from your 216 to make it work (depending if you want to keep your 6-volt electrical system). Mine was made in 1959 as a crate motor for the '54/'55 trucks.

Not sure if the early 235's are the same way.

Later 235's and 261s require some mods to work.

Upgrading with the early 261 (if you can find one ) is easy -- your average orangutan with a hammer and an adjustable wrench could do it. Rebuilding it before hand ... um, not so much.

But either way, if you have a choice, go with the 261. Do 26 cubes matter? YES. That's an 11% increase. The difference on my truck (216 to 261) was that I went from a trailer queen (for longer trips, anyway) to a real highway cruiser. If you want to spend time cruising the Interstate or with guys who have done serious power upgrades to their trucks, every cube matters. You don't want to be the guy who the others are waiting for at the tops of hills.

Or if you are far north, source a 53 Canadian 235
it was standard equipment that year and it can take all the 216 accessories including the manifolds, and comes with the correct 6v starter ring gear.
The valve cover even looks like the 216, for extra car show confusion

"2. ALL 235's will require drilling for the water pump adapter plate (to mount it in the higher position)"
The early high-pressure truck 235s require no mods to install (as per John's other statement, below).

3. "The early 261's require no mods to install." - 1954/55st

I was editing my post while you were writing, tim .. My bottom line -- go for the/any 261. 216 to 235 is a good upgrade. 216 to a 261 is a *better* one Settle for a 235 if you can't find a 261.

- Amen

Where did I read that all 261's were drilled for hydraulic lifters even if they came with solid lifters? Am I wrong? Different cam required?

No. Yes. Yes.

From Tim's website
http://www.1954advance-design.com/Web%20images/1958-60-rocker-oil/1958-rocker-arm-lubrication.html

1954 and later 235 car (not truck) engines with Powerglide had hydraulic.

Even with cars, there are noise issues with making 235 hydraulics work like expected. Lots of reading and ask questions before going this route. Many old truck owners like the light clacking of solids.

The only thing better than a 261 would be one with a long stroke crankshaft that approaches 300 cubic inches. I'm working on accumulating parts for building that engine some time in the not too far distant future.
Jerry

How you gear the 235 makes a big difference in both in-town traffic and highway driving. If you're strictly a 3 on the tree guy, then you'll have fewer options. If you're willing to change your drive train and study overall ratios carefully, the 235 can be just fine in any situation.

Great point Jon.
I would take a truck with a babbit pounder 216 if it had a T-5 transmission and a 3.73, 4.10, or larger ratio rear end over a stock truck with a stock drive train and stock 235 or a 261.
I bet I would surprise many on race day
You can gain more performance from modernizing what goes behind the stovebolt engine than anything you try to do to the engine, including increasing the cubic inches.
I know, as the late Lucky Ned Pepper once said to Rooster Cogburn,"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man." (for the record, I am not that old, and I can see poorly out of both eyes).
In conclusion, all I will add is, "see you on race day."

Thanks Carl, now I'll be hearing Robert Duvall speaking that line for days.

I’m currently building a 261. Parts cost about $950, plus machine shop time/costs.

Chris

That would be John Wayne in "True Grit"...

Mike B

Actually that would be Robert Duvall's character addressing John Wayne's character.

Touche! LOL!

Back on the OP question...there's no replacement for displacement, if you can afford and find the 261 then that would be the way I'd go.

Mike B

Cruising the pits at the Bonneville Salt Flats I saw a tow vehicle with "There's no substitute for cubic money," in nice script painted on the side.

You could keep the 216 and just turn it faster. With some period speed equipment you can up the power a bit and look cool at the same time. Maybe Hot Rod Lincoln could fix you up with a crank drilled for pressure to the rod bearings. Switch to an open drive line rear axle and a three speed overdirve transmission. I think they were available for Chevrolet cars from '55 on. I had a daily-driver '50 Stude for 10 years with 4.56 gears and an overdrive. It effectively had 5 usable speeds and got consistently 28 MPG on the road. It would make a comfortable 60MPH. A 4.11 run through a 30% overdrive would give you a 2.88 final drive ratio. That, with a five-speed trans should do nicely in an AD pickup. A 216 will have way more torque than a flathead 170 Studebaker and the later 3-speed trans was a big improvement. Might be cheaper than finding and rebuilding a 261 and you'd surely get better gas mileage than a 261 run through a straight 3-speed and a 4.11 rear.

With the modification I'm currently working on, a 235 crankshaft and pistons is going to fit into a stock-appearing 216 block, using modified 292 connecting rods and a camshaft slightly hotter than a Corvette/261 item. It's also going to have a high volume oil pump and a leakproof rear main bearing seal. With a little tinkering on the cylinder head for better gas flow, it will keep up with, or possibly out-torque a stock 235, in a package that looks like the original 216. Given the outrageos prices people are charging to do a stock rebuild on a Babbit pounder these days, the cost won't be much different, as well!
Jerry

Hotrod Lincoln, did you get your setup finished?
Your upgraded 216

This thread is a little over two years old. I've actually moved on from the idea of using a stock stroke 235 crankshaft in a 216 block, although that approach would still be possible. By doing some machining on the main bearing webs of the 216 block to narrow the thrust bearing area, later model 235 main bearings and a full pressure 235 crankshaft can be used, and the crankshaft stroke can be increased to 4 5/16"- - - -a stroke gain of 3/8". Combined with aluminum pistons for a Buick engine and Nissan 4 cylinder connecting rods, the displacement will increase to 258 cubic inches and there will be a big increase in compression ratio. All these modifications will be incorporated into an engine that looks exactly like a 216 from the outside. Similar bore and stroke changes to a 235 will yield 270 cubic inches, and boring and stroking a 261 will make it a 300. I'm in the process of finalizing the rotating assembly for a 258 cubic inch "216" that will include several other, very radical internal modifications. Some health concerns with a couple of close family members have slowed me down somewhat, but I'm making steady progress.
Jerry

Since the direction of this thread changed, there is no sense in continuing. I’m locking this thread.