The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1957 235

I love ya man but you have to do it the way I lay it out using the tools you need to use. You need a remote starter switch. The reason is that you need to put your finger or thumb over the number one spark plug hole and seal it up with your finger. Then you bump the motor over until the compression blows your finger off. Now use the fan belt to get the bb lined up.

You can get a remote starter at any parts place or Amazon has them for as low as 9 bucks. Little more for a better quality unit but you need one. You could also make one up with some electrical clamps, wire and a momentary switch that can handle the amps.

The point set up looks fine, junky points but they should work fine.

The point of this process is to find when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke. The crank goes around twice per spark, and it you have it timed to the opposite (exhaust) stroke it won't do you any good.

The process dragsix laid out will let you make sure that you are on the compression stroke because it will push the air out the exhaust valve instead of pushing your finger off if it is the exhaust stroke.

Once you have verified that you are on the compression stroke with your finger, then you can use the BB to verify top dead center and adjust your timing from there. Differences of degrees will separate running great from not running at all, so you really do need to follow the process.

Thanks guys!!!! I will look into the remote starter.
What does BB stand for? I see a circle and hash marks (L+R) on flywheel thru the window

It's an actual ball bearing BB embedded in the flywheel to mark TDC.

Thanks ! This one may have fallen out. Looks like a dimple.

I have used dragsix’s method for 60+ years and it’s always right. Remember as noted by Fibonacci above, the timing marks will appear in the window twice as you rotate to find TDC. Many see the marks and falsely assume the engine is at the correct place when it’s actually 180* out. Do it right and you will be running in no time. Good luck.

Looks like your flywheel matches up with the last sample pic in this Flywheel Timing Mark blog post page by Pre '68 Dave.

Would be why you don't "see" an actual BB. The circle represents the BB in your case.

On to your finding TDC and getting the timing set.

Dan

Yep Dan, that 3rd is the one I have.
I would not think Dan T. would have set the TDC 180 degrees off.
But maybe..... I sure am lost at this point. If he cannot , I don`t stand much of a chance.

You'll get it figured out.

Really recommend you follow Dragsix's guidance. It is probably the best/easiest way to check and set your engine to TDC.

The remote start switch is a super extra help for those of us that pretty much work solo the majority of the time.

Keep us posted and don't give up man!

Dan

You are over thinking this. Its not a matter of what Dan did or did not do. Its a matter of low hanging fruit. You cannot diagnose and repair this if you don't know where you are starting from. And you cant really make assumptions here. You have to know. So first, you have to make sure you are at TDC with the timing because, notwithstanding any other problems, the motor will start at TDC. Once that is confirmed or readjusted, which ever the case may be, you can move on to the other potential areas. Spark plugs clean and gapped correctly, points clean and gapped correctly, condenser, rotor, cap. Btw, I might consider removing those points and give the point plate a good cleaning. Check continuity between the points and the threads on the stud. Same with the wire from the stud to the coil. Make sure you are getting cranking voltage to the coil. Test and confirm the coil is good, if not I like the accel superstock coils. I have been using them for decades and never an issue. In fact, I had Holley test one of my older yellow coils a couple of years ago at the trifive nationals, came up good to 7000 rpm on their machine and that coil was easily 30 years old or older. Check the spark plug wire routing, make sure no mixups. A couple of years ago I had a running issue on one of my 261 motors. Backfiring, missing. 46 years of messing with these motors, and I had two wires in the wrong order. If you had asked me I would have told you they were in the right order, but checking, actually confirming, is what led me to discover the issue. Finally, test the spark plug wires themselves just to confirm in your mind that all is well.

If you really want to confirm everything, after you have all the ignition stuff sorted out, and before you reinstall your spark plugs, do a compression test just to make sure no issues. Easy enough with these 235 motors to have a bent push rod or junked up valve.

Once all of that is sorted out you should be getting spark at the plugs and your non-starting issue is probably not an ignition issue

Last Saturday, I helped assemble a 216 after doing a valve job on the cylinder head. It took less than 30 minutes to rough-set the valve lash, install and time the distributor, and do an initial adjustment of idle speed and carburetor mixture- - - - -enough for a 20 minute warmup run before a final valve lash adjustment. The engine started on the first attempt, after boosting the (6 volt) battery a little. It was slightly discharged from the truck sitting idle for several months. "It's not rocket surgery!"
Jerry

Sometimes I get to doing things and everything goes together right and
quickly. I like those days.
I`d rather not over think it and move on. There is no one around me/here
that knows more about engines than Dan Timm and if he left from here
after setting TDC and saying it should crank with new points condenser and coil,
there is nothing more I can do. Id have to tear him away from the racing needs of
Wisconsin that is in full swing right now. I`ll try.
Might not be Brain Science , but for me right now it might as well be.
I will persevere to do what Dragsix has told me.

Hang in there. If there is compression, spark and fuel it will run. Here is the thing, these early six motors are not like a v8 and they are not like a later model six. There are some intricacies that are not intuitive. Lets do the confirming and diagnosing first, and go from there. You can do this. Now roll your sleeves up and get to work, lol!

Thanks, I am after it. I have so many things pending ,
oil pressure woes, tie rod end replacing , install seats(something to sit on while).
Milk crate won`t do.
Found a nice 60/40 split bench.

But this 235 is top at the moment.

All right!!! Cranked and idling. Letting it cool off
and crank and idle till warm.
Dan stopped in and got her up and running. He said the timing was
off/retarded.
Sounds like it will need rockers adjusted. Not sure if they are hydraulic or solid lifters.

Wonderful news! I had a feeling that timing was going to play into the equation.

Happy Day!!!

No coolant leaks or oil leaks. Nice and cool. Carb from Jon G works great!
Just the knocking noise.
I feel like I`ll be riding those lifters with a
socket wrench soon.

Congrats on getting it running!
If it is indeed a 57 car engine, then it would have hydraulic lifters
Hard to tell from the video exactly, but that 'knocking' sure sounds a lot worse than simply tappets - sounds like a rod end or main bearing. I would have thought your local expert would have recognized serious noise however, so maybe I'm (hopefully) wrong.
I'm sure our resident experts will weigh in

That would be great. It does sound worse in person.

That does not sound like valve train noise to me.

If you remove the spark plugs and rotate it by using a rachet on the crankshaft bolt do you feel any "tight" spots?

No tight spots. Turns free.

If its a real 57 235 from a passenger car, its a hydraulic cam. Warm it up, readjust the valves. See if that does the trick. Then you will know. Also, no bolt on the crankshaft unless someone was into that motor in the past, and drilled and tapped the crank while they were there.

Yes, there is no bolt on Crank shaft.
I have it idling nicely. The knocking is getting less. but still there.

That is probably not a valve noise- - - -too deep of a sound, and the frequency is too fast. That's either a piston slap or a connecting rod knock. It will run a lot smoother if you plug off the vacuum leak from the tube sticking out of the intake manifold below the carburetor.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry, Yeah that tube is smashed closed. The noise is about to go away.
I let it warm ,then shut it off to cool. Sounds smooth till sometimes.... something
sounds like its rolling around in there and it will start knocking again. Turn it off and crank it
back up it goes away...sometimes.

Couple more videos of the engine. Tell me if something is off sounding.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKbh2m_MbmI

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI_gAWcUSlc

Try removing the fan belt and running just the engine, without the fan, water pump, and charging system noises creating any distractions. It will run for a minute or so with the water pump disabled without overheating. I've seen square bearings in the water pump make people think the engine is about to hand grenade itself, and a noisy fuel pump can sound like a rod knock or a piston slap at times. Loose flywheel bolts can also make some oddball noises.
Jerry

I`ll look at that for sure. I found out some of that rattling was the inner fenders.(not bolted down).
It sounds pretty good now, Everytime I crank it up ,getting better.
Finally found the right fitting for the fuel tank and keep it all hard lined. 8AN to 7/16ths.
How soon do you think I should change the oil? What weight?
I have a 15 40 in now.

At times this engines sounds really smooth. Sometimes not so but it goes away.
Id say it sounds better cold.
Little knocking noise travels with acceleration.
What could that be?

Have you run the engine with the valve cover removed?

That would allow a visual evaluation of moving parts/pieces at least on the top end to eliminate if any of those components are the noise makers.

Not quite understanding what you mean by "Little knocking noise travels with acceleration."???

Any which way, that sound is unlikely to cure itself and internal inspection is probably going to be needed to find it before you can correct it.

Just my $.02 worth.

Dan

I guess it means it gets more rapid with acceleration.
Ill try with cover off.

Here is a video with the cover off. Sounds good. Later, I did not get it on
film but there is noise that starts from the front and moves back in the lower part of the
engine. I took the belt off to check those working parts. Noise is still there.
Engine running with valve train exposed

Thanks for posting and I watched/listened several times (after fixing your link).

Since you didn't capture the sound that you reported, kind of hard to diagnose anything on that.

I will note that it seemed like your oil feed assembly that rides at the center of the rocker shafts seems to actually move and jump around (more up and down than side to side) and seemed there might have been some similar movement with the rocker shafts/stands.

To my knowledge those shouldn't be moving around and would suggest checking your rocker stand bolts to make sure everything is tight/secure and that your rocker shafts aren't actually moving (they could be badly worn which could account for movement in the stands).

If you have a distinct intermittent noise rumbling around down low, next step can only be to drop the pan to investigate.

Dan

I noticed that movement too. It ain't right.

Put on a glove and press on various places in the valve train while the engine is running to localize the noise. Press on both ends of each rocker arm as well. Can you "feel" the noise is one place more than others?

Engine seems to be idling fast.

Yep, agreed the idle is high. I will need a stronger throttle spring.
That oil feed assem. I will look at too.
I am proud of myself for getting this far without major issues.
The transmission works well. NO LEAKS. Oil is good.
So glad when I cranked it up the 1st time there was not a terrible sound of sorts.
I don`t think there is anyone on here that knows less about an engine than me.
You guys help was instrumental.
I`ll be finishing the front brakes so I can stop this thing.

Giving it some gas and then a lower idle. Giving it some gas...

Hey you can see the heat riser working!!

About 13 seconds into the video I can see an open end of a vacuum port going into the intake manifold just below the carb. Maybe it is mashed down closer to the manifold or maybe it is a vacuum leak.

It is mashed down closed. Its supposed to be there?