Hey everybody, technique update. I've worked myself into the following technique for plug welding. Don't know if it's right or wrong, but it's workable for me, Mr. Unconventional. So, starting with a plug weld setup, I weld from inside the circle towards the outside: north, south, east and west. Then, I fill in around the circle NE, SW, NW and SE. It looks like the attached picture. In this pic, south had a little too much trigger time and not enough movement of the gun. It happens. All in all, its not too unruly until I try to fill in the center of the plug. I ended up with this technique because I couldn't go around the circle perimeter without blowing out an edge. Does is make a difference? Thoughts?
Maybe too big a hole? I don’t go any bigger than 5/16 unless absolutely necessary (like when drilling out an existing spot weld. Maybe up your wire feed speed. That helps avoid blowouts. I usually keep the trigger pulled and go around in a spiral from outside to inside. But whatever works for you.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I tried the spiral thing, but had too many blowouts. That's a part of how I got to my technique. Like you said, it works for me. I think the welds that result are strong, just not pretty. Which, kinda fits me and the truck.... I use a spot weld cutter from HF. I think it measures 3/8". It does a good job cutting out those factory welds. I usually add a pilot hole, though, as the center tends to wander without one. My main goals for posting my technique description were to get feedback (thank you!) and to put out something that might help someone else, but not be intuitive to another noob like myself. I think that even after I finish all of the welding that I need to do, I'll still be a "proby" (tip of the hat to NCIS).
Not sure if I should laugh or cry. Here's a shot of the driver side lower hinge area, or what's left of it. Even though I didn't make full replacements for the hinge reinforcement on the passenger side, I did make the template and a couple of test pieces. I'll dust that stuff off and see how it goes. Oy!
The hinge pocket is just flat metal bent on a brake or over a piece of angle iron. But that's the easy part. All the bits to repair that are available in the repop market. But plan on it taking a long time. Be sure to review what others have done and posted about (including myself) and ask questions before you get too deep.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
As Kevin said just be patient. the biggest challenge will be getting the replacement hinge bracket and related hinge post positioned correctly for your door to fit correctly. Anticipate several door installations and removals to check everything as you out it back together.
So, here's what really worries me about the driver side hinge pillar...the VIN plate. The first pic shows the inside of the pillar. If you look at the 5:00 and 11:00 positions, you can see the backside of each VIN plate rivet. There really isn't much left of them. So, before I get into that area, I'm going to contact the VA DMV Law Enforcement office for help. After some research, I think that they are the ones who can help me deal with this. The VIN plate itself is fine. The title for the truck is fine (matches the VIN and is in my name). All I need is for the correct office to reattach it for me so that I don't break any laws! Kind of a hassle, but it is what it is.
This morning, I got the park brake bracket mounted to the new floor. I know that the inner-to-outer cowl will also have to fit over the park brake pivot rod, but for now, it's properly fit, with the through the under floor brace bolted and the through the floor carriage bolts installed. I really hated drilling 2 holes in my nice new floor, but that's how it mounts! I may add some sealant under the floor when I'm ready to finalize everything. That's all for now. I'll keep you all posted on the VIN issue. For now, nothing will be done in that area until I get the VIN issue resolved.
I got my answers on the VIN Plate question! I had a really cool discussion with a VA DMV Law Enforcement officer today. Bottom line up front: I will do what I can to save my original rivets and thus, my original VIN Plate. If at some point in the future, whether during the restoration process or while driving around the burg, the VIN Plate becomes loose or falls off, the VA DMV will replace the original VIN Plate with a VA issued VIN Plate and they will rivet it to the truck. No harm, no foul. So, it's in my truck's best interest to try to preserve the original plate. Now, the devil is in the details. Preserving those rivets will be tricky at best. We talked about possibly using JB Weld and the pros and cons of such an approach. We talked about POR-15 or some other type of rust inhibitor and the pros and cons of that approach. There is no clear approach that could or would work. Too much of any approach will hurt the long term value of the truck. I know, I know, so will my welding.... At any rate, I've got my general guidance. Now I've got to translate that into an action plan. Fortunately for my truck, I've already got schedule commitments for the rest of the week, so I'll have plenty of time to think on it. Any suggestions are certainly welcome! The goals are to preserve the "fastening ability" of the rivets without creating a wad of JB Weld or the like. The floor is open!
OBTW, this is applicable to Virginia only! I'm certain each state has different laws governing this issue. Perhaps you'll get a hint at who to reach out to and or ideas to help you deal with a similar issue.
I'm wondering if DMV could work with you to keep the original serial number plate (which is a plus to have.) I'm assuming they'll stamp some random number on the serial number plate they put on. Maybe they could remove the plate and store it for you and put some sort of identifying marks on your truck (stamping an ID number on the metal under the serial number plate?), then when you're done, rivet the plate back on. Or maybe they could stamp the original number on a repop plate that you purchase and supply. You did good consulting with DMV before doing anything like removing the plate.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
According to the officer, once the original plate is off of the truck, regardless of how it came to be off of the truck, it will never be put back on the truck. He did tell me that if I needed a new VIN plate, that DMV would issue me a new one with the original VIN number stamped in the new plate...unless I've substantially modified the truck. By substantially modified, he meant new driveline, or new frame or modifications of that sort. In that case, it becomes a reconstructed vehicle, not a restored vehicle. In that case, DMV would issue a new VIN plate with the old number and the letter "R" stamped behind it, to indicate reconstructed. I was hoping that they could do any of the things that you had mentioned, but they don't do those things. So, I'll dance with the one that brung me. At least until she falls off!
I wonder how VA deals with my vintage (1949 OR 1950?) of truck where the identification/serial plate is held on the driver's side door hinge post with sheet metal screws? I am pretty sure that was the way it was originally but clearly the way it was when I got it. Part of the confusion for my model year is the serial number decodes as a 1950, the frame has tubular shocks (not lever action) that would agree with the 1950 vintage but the title I received when I bought it in AZ says 1949 and so the title I received from WI also says 1949. I have the plate in my office while I am working on the truck but just plan to screw it back on when the time comes.
As you said every state is probably different but there must be older vintage trucks with screwed on plated in VA?
Gray_Ghost. Is it possible to cut the metal around the plate, preserving the rivets? Once cut off, the metal could be welded into the new sheet metal still preserving the rivets.
Wayne 1938 1-Ton Farm Truck -30- Stovebolt Gallery Forums When I die, I hope she doesn't sell everything for what I told her I paid for it!
Wayne, Did you miss where the guy told him "regardless of how it came to be off the truck"? There may still be an opportunity to supply DMV with a repop original serial number plate correct for the year for them to stamp and attach.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Gray, I see you worked on your 53' A Pillar area (ref poste dphoto.) Our 48' passenger side A Pillar area is in need of similar deepdown action repair. Did or di you post more on this A Pillar repair? If you did I'd like to see more photos or repair cautions.
In the Tech tips section of this site, you will see a VIN section. It is stated there, that many trucks had the VIN screwed to the door post. My truck is that way. They used hex head clutch screws. It has been discussed here many times. Some stated must be a real pain to deal with. In MN there are no inspections of any kind on cars and pickups unless the vehicle was rebuilt from a totaled or wreck. They look for stolen parts is all.
A quick update, but first an apology. I completely apologize for a previous rant over rebuilding one of the hinges. I was frustrated, but wrong. Now the sad news: pretty sure I need to rebuild another hinge. Check out the video clip attached....
I did make some posts while working on the passenger side hinge pillar (as opposed to A pillar or B pillar, which I think are car terms. The FAM refers to it as the hinge pillar). Full disclosure: I'm learning this as I go along. What that means is that my processes are sometimes unorthodox and some really disagree with me. To my defense, I think my work will hold up. Time will tell. I have hung the door on the finished side and it hung properly, the gaps were pretty good and it opened and closed as it should. Your mileage may vary.... On to what I think I know.
I was very concerned about about removing too much of the sheet metal at once. Some take it all off (inner and outer cowl panels) and go for it. I was worried about the hinge pillar itself flexing and/or moving out of position. My thought was that if I kept one piece of factory metal in place, it would support the pillar and keep it's orientation correct. To accomplish this, I removed the bottom of both the inner and outer cowl. This exposed the hinge reinforcement. I made a new one and added it over the old one. I chose not to cut the old one out, due to fears of my lack of experience and lack of welding skill. (I'm working on the driver side now and have completely cut out the remnants of the old hinge reinforcement. I guess I'm more confident now....) Either way, I made the repair to the hinge reinforcement, then repaired the bottom of the hinge pillar. Once that was done, I removed the rest of the inner cowl, ground out any remaining rust, then fit the replacement inner cowl and welded it in place. After the inner cowl was done, I removed the remaining parts of the outer cowl, fit the replacement and the inner-to-outer cowl and welded them into place. As I mentioned above, by going sequentially, I was able to keep the hinge pillar from moving. Everything seems to be structurally sound and the door seems to work as designed. It is, in my opinion, easy to accidentally tweak the hinge pillar out of alignment or shape if too much of the surrounding sheet metal is removed at the same time. Hope this helps! My passenger side write ups start on page 6 and run through page 11 ish. Good luck! Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Super quick update time. Been working as time allows, making slow, but steady progress. Essentially, the inside the cab front sheet metal is done. Both floor pans, both rocker panels, both inner cowls, both under floor braces, all replaced. The passenger side outer sheet metal is also done (outer cowl and inner-to-outer cowl). That leaves the driver side outer cowl and inner-to-outer cowl. Attached is a quick pic showing the outer cowl literally slapped into place and held there by one clamp. The pic is for my motivation, but gives you all a reference of where I'm at. I'll post inside the cab pics when it is cleaned up. Right now, it is littered with tools.... Here in VA, it is hot and humid. I don't deal with that very well, so progress may be slower than usual while I wait for the heat to pass. We'll see.
A quick update as we head out of the summer.... During the heat of the summer I did manage to get a few things done. I managed to get the driver side lower hinge rebuilt. A little less of an ordeal than the passenger side (I'm assuming that I learned something the first time through....) but still an ordeal. I'm just thankful that it is done. Also, I've done most of the fitting of the outer cowl and inner to outer cowl. As everyone already knows, the inner-to-outer cowl is a poorly made piece, regardless of source. Long story short, I have three of them. None fits straight out of the box, although the single stamped piece was closer than the welded up pieces. So that is the one that I'm going with, even though it will require modification to fit properly. That's where I'm at in the process, modifying the inner-to-outer cowl piece. The basic fitment is set, but the piece needs length added to it to reach the end of the outer cowl and actually seal the cab from the outside elements. That process isn't too hard, just tedious. One of the biggest concerns that I've had is getting to this point and stacking tolerances so that the emergency brake bracket wouldn't align with the holes stamped into the rocker panel and inner-to-outer cowl panel. Attached is a picture showing that all of the pieces do, in fact, still fit together! This is a huge relief for me! So, it seems like I am heading into the homestretch of repairing the front of the cab sheet metal. There is still a ton of welding left to do on those pieces, but I'm confident of the process left to complete. Game plan after completing the front sheet metal is to buy tires and install them on my new wheels, spin the truck around in the garage so the nose is pointed outward, install the engine, replace the cab corners, install the interior and (dare I say) drive it...? Anyway, I'm a ways off from driving it, but that's the 30,000 ft plan. As we head into the cooler weather, I hope to spend a lot more time in the garage, so hopefully I'll have more frequent updates.
I'm really learning a lot from this post, thank you for the thorough writeup and pictures! My 1965 C560 school bus front clip is increasingly resembling yours.. pretty rotten. Because it's a bus, the factory front clip ends at the dashboard, but I can see its mount points to the frame are pretty bad. The Carpenter coach portion is remarkably rust free, so I think it's pretty much holding the front clip on. Also I'm sure that whatever Johnson era rustrpoof coatings they put on this thing are killing me slowly :-) but at least they'll find me in a rust free school bus.
I was today years old when I learned from this post about how to duplicate spot welds without a spot welder!
Before and after shots of the floor and outer cowl with some primer. Currently wrapping up the final details on fitting the emergency brake rod through the outer cowl. Literally less than 5 minutes of work. Once that is done, the front sheet metal work is done. I'll call it a 20 foot job, for real world discussion. For me, a noob that was learning as I go, I'm pretty darn happy. This is a big step forward to getting my truck back on the road, which is my goal.
Brings back memories of when my cab was about that rusty.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
I can relate as I am almost 2 years into my project and feel like I am doing okay but have a long way to go. My hope is to be able to call it a ligitimate 20 footer when all is said and done. My goal being to drive it more than show it.
Quick update: the windshield has been replaced. The gasket will need a little tweaking to get it 100%, but I'll wait for warmer weather to do that. I'll tackle the rear window at the same time. The windshield installation was quite fiddly. Most of the job I could do myself, but I definitely needed a helper to conquer the passenger side top outboard corner. It's in place now, so I can focus on other things. Next up: getting the salvage engine between the frame rails. I'm sure I'll have questions about this process, but I'll post those in the engine forum. Once I get the engine off the garage floor and into the truck, I want to remove the bed. I need this removed so that I can get to the rear of the cab and replace both cab corners. So, I've got lots to keep me busy during the indoor working season. Two pics attached, showing inside and outside of new glass. Biggest gasket area that needs attention is the top center, but as I mentioned, I'll wait for the warm weather to make the gasket more pliable. Happy Thanksgiving, Everyone!
Quick update: the engine now sits between the frame rails. No connections made yet, but I'll start on that soon. Now that I've freed up some garage floorspace, I'm going to work towards getting the bed off of the truck. That will give me the access I need to repair the cab corners. Also, while I have access, I'll replace the leaf spring bushings and the shocks. I'll also install the exhaust system. After those tasks are done, I'll reinstall the bedsides and the new bed wood. Plan the work and work the plan. Lots to do before spring gets here.
Time for an update. After getting the engine installed, I focused on doing the engine wiring. Afterwards, I did a quick post in the electrical bay to verify what I had done was correct. It was. I really wanted to fire up the engine, but was advised to get the whole electrical system completed before adding a battery and starting the engine. So, I moved on and installed the new electric wiper motor, sticking with the electrical theme. That is done now, so it's time to move on to more of the hard stuff. Today, I removed the sheet metal that a previous owner had installed in the bed. It was a slapdash install, most likely to just make it functional again. The sheet metal was not large enough to cover the entire bed, so they used 2 sheets and pop riveted them to something that kinda looks like the metal edge pieces of the bed, but I think are really just angle iron.... So, the sheet metal is now gone (see the attached pic).
The plan moving forward is to remove the strips of wood, clean the underlying metal (frame, bed cross members, etc) and get some paint on them. I was originally going to remove the bed to work on the cab corners, but am not sure now. Also, while I have the access, I'll change out the shocks, replace the bushings on the leaf springs and finalize the exhaust mounting. Then I'll see If I can do the cab corners without taking the bed off of the frame. If I have to take it off, then I will. Once all that is done and its time to add bed material, I'll switch from the sheet metal to an original style wood bed. I've already got the wood and metal strips. The wood has been stained black and coated with outdoor polyurethane. The wood looks really nice and I'm excited to get it into the truck.
So, I find myself at the bottom of yet another mountain looking up. Lots to keep me busy.
I looks like the bed is going to be a bigger project than you outlined. The angle strips do not appear to welded to the bed sides and the cross sills are not mpounted to the frame correctly. I suspect the cab corners will require you to remove the bed anyway so you probably should just jump in to the deep end.
Yeah, the angle strips have been replaced by plain ol' angle iron. I'm only seeing a problem with the front cross sill, which doesn't appear to be attached to the front panel (should be.) The others look to be in the right place, but IIRC there should be wood blocks between the rearmost one in the pic and the frame. You might need to get new cross sills if they're rusted more than they first appear in the picture and are weakened enough to be a concern. Mar-K has a sale going now. LINK Might be a good time to get proper angle strips and maybe a bed floor kit. Here's a link to their bed mounting instructions. Bed to Frame Mounting instructions
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
So, I spent some more time prepping the bed for removal. Yes, it's coming off. I gave the cross sills a closer look and they will all need to be replaced. The game plan ATM is to get the bed off of the truck and out of the way. At least as out of the way as is possible in my garage. Then I'll work on the cab corners and lock pillars to finish up the cab sheet metal replacement. I'm really hoping to get that done before the hot weather gets here. From there, I'll do the leaf spring bushings and shocks. Then I'll tackle the bed. Kinda seems like I'll miss my goal of driving the truck this warm weather season.... Oh well, off to that mountain. I've got a lot of climbing to do!
PS, I've got new tires on the way! I'm going with the 215 70R 16 size tires that were recommended to me a while back. I'm doing the wheels/tires now, so that I can move the truck in and out of the garage, if necessary. I'll keep them covered during the sheet metal work to keep them nice. I may just get that new battery, too. I really want to hear that engine run and make sure it is ok after several years of hibernation. A running truck would make moving it in and out easier than pushing!
Quick update. I went out of order on the work sequence and got tires put on my new wheels. I got the wheels a couple of years ago and was waiting until I got a little closer to driving the truck before adding tires and putting them on the truck. At this point, the bed is almost completely disconnected from the truck. The only remaining connections are to the running boards. I'll climb under the truck in a couple of days and sever those connections. Once done, I'll remove the bed. I'm thinking of turning the truck around to make reaching the cab corners with the welder a little easier. My old tires were dry rotted and one would not hold air. So rolling around on those old tires wasn't going to happen. In come the new tires and rolling is now doable. I went with 16 inch wheels and 215 70R 16 tires per the recommendation. I think that they look great! You can judge for yourself. Pics attached. First pic is of the new wheel/tire combo on the truck. The second pic is a comparison between the old 235 75R 15 and the new 215 70R 16 tires.
Quick update. The bed is off of the truck! Wasn't too bad of a task, but one that I definitely had to have help completing. So, me, my wife, my oldest son and two oldest grandsons got it done. Now, off to the races...I've got a lot of work to do!
Last edited by Gray_Ghost; 02/08/202410:37 PM. Reason: accuracy
Are those braces from the back of the cab to the top of the frame? If so probably need to get them removed and install the correct rear cab support parts.
Are you talking about the weird looking rods on either side of the cab? If so, they are the remnants of the bolts that go through the wood blocks that hold up the bed. I cut them out this morning. If you were talking about something else, I'm not sure what and you'll have to tell me. At this point, the only thing I'm not sure about are the wood blocks with the angled fronts that are still bolted to the frame. I just haven't gotten to researching them yet. Thanks for looking and asking!
At this point, the only thing I'm not sure about are the wood blocks with the angled fronts that are still bolted to the frame. I just haven't gotten to researching them yet.
Those angled wood blocks are not original. Someone likely put them there. The cross sill just behind the shock mounts is supposed to "float" as in it doesn't touch the frame. There are only blocks at the spots where the bed is bolted to the frame. But as those blocks "wear down" the floating cross sill where your angled blocks are can hit the frame. My frame had grooves worn in the frame there, but the other blocks had been replaced with rubber donuts and big washers.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Kevin, thanks for filling me in. Putting all the bed components together will be quite the learning experience for me! I wouldn't have guessed that the sill was floating. So then, off with the non-original wooden blocks! Interestingly enough, they have grooves worn in them from the sill that was sitting on them....
I was referring to the wierd looking rods so glad to hear their contact with the cab was just an illusion.
The bed make up is reallly interesting and as I move along with my project I am developing a plan for how to do the final assembly. There are actually 2 floating cross sills but I am relocating mine from the Mar-K instructions due to concerns about potential interference with the rear shocks. There are 3 cross sills that mount to the frame plus the rear cross sill. The second one that mounts to the frame includes brackets on the ends that mount to the bed sides.
I spent some time getting things cleaned up on the frame. I ground off the loose rust scale and most of the rust on the frame components. Afterwards, I used the Rustoleum rust converter paint as a sealer/primer. I've had good results with that product, so I used it again here. After that, I sprayed everything with flat black. It cleaned up nicely. Then, I installed the exhaust system. I am using the Waldron dual exhaust with Fenton headers. Overall, I'm pleased with how the exhaust turned out. I'm looking forward to hearing it in action. Hopefully soon.
