EDIT 3/24 - moved some of Ron's posts from the Welcome Centre in order to get the engine discussion going over in this Engine Shop. Looks like that did the trick! ~ Peggy M
I did not expect the engine to be good. Considering age and I’ll cap was off when I got it. But for giggles, I pulled the dipstick and it appears to have oil in it. Not oil and water -- but oil.
I did not get it thinking it was or would run.
So I’ll keep posting as I know more.
Thanks for the warm welcome
Last edited by Peggy M; 05/03/20234:42 PM. Reason: fixed title
I’ve even used iodine to “help” free up seized pistons ᠁ If I can’t remove plugs and spin it by hand further steps should be taken before even attempting to crank it over in my opinion
Last edited by Peggy M; 05/03/20234:40 PM. Reason: fixed title
I’ll update tomorrow now that you guys have already convinced me to see if she will spin ᠁ I’ve already pB blasted plugs ᠁. Initially thought I’d sell engine as I fully intend to chassis swap and V8 But I like reviving old machines ᠁. But 6 volt ᠁ Hmmmm not much experience with 6 volt system᠁ I know I know It’s alot like 12 volt only 6 lol
I believe there's a tech tip here someplace about bringing old dormant engines back to life. First thing I would do is put some ATF in all the cylinders and let it soak a while before turning it over. Also pull the valve cover and make sure all the valves are free and not stuck.
But for giggles I pulled the dipstick and it appears to have oil in it Not oil and water But oil
Over time, water in the oil will sink to the bottom of the pan so don't depend on the dipstick to indicate no water.
'57 GMC 102, Original 347 V8, HydraMatic, 3.08 rear gear, added A/C, disk front brakes, HEI, AFB carb, '98 Honda Black Currant paint. T-boned and totaled 10/12 '52 GMC 152 Stake Bed, Original 228, SM420, added A/C, HEI, disk front brakes, '67 Chev 3.55 rear gear. Gets used as a real truck.
I believe there's a tech tip here someplace about bringing old dormant engines back to life. First thing I would do is put some ATF in all the cylinders and let it soak a while before turning it over. Also pull the valve cover and make sure all the valves are free and not stuck.
Also, 12 volt conversions are not that difficult.
Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!
Thank you for this I had never heard about using ATF If I can get the plugs broke loose I will do just that. And remove valve cover I’ll even try to post some pics if able Thank you
Makes sense After attempting to free engine up I’ll be sure to of course drain oil pan This isn’t really the direction I planned to go with the ol truck but you guys have convinced me see if she’ll run . The condition of the truck makes me think it was running when it was parked . Thanks again Ron
There are a lot of engine tips listed on the Tech Tip page.
I think the one you may be thinking of is "Bringing a dead engine back to life" by the Stovebolt Collective. (One of my fav pix of Phil "TrknGMC" Pierce sitting under the hood!)
A real good Tech Tip!
~ Peggy M 1949 Chevrolet 3804 "Charlie" - The Stovebolt Flagship In the Gallery || In the Gallery Forum "I didn't see this one coming. I don't see much of anything coming. :-O"
So we removed clutch inspection cover and after removing the large mouse nest . I gently tried to persuade flywheel to turn engine over. It’s tighter than dicks hatband so i stopped. Put bout a 1/2 cup of ATF in each cylinder and am going to let it sit over night see if any movement happens in the morning. I’ll also take valve cover off see what’s going on in there Thanks Ron
And you may want to leave it soak a little longer--maybe a couple weeks or so. I know it's hard to be patient sometimes, but some things do take a while.
Ron Burgundy You could loosen your drain plug,see if you get water dripping there,an old neighbor guy freed a 2-lunger John Deere by filling a cylinder with oil then pumping grease into it. Gotta be sure it's on the way down of course,an A I believe.
Lol Good ol Ron Burgandy quotes never get old! Lol It appears the ATF is slowly draining thru at least first 3 cylinders I’ll check again hopefully today see if the back 3 cyl are slowing draining past rings , I think that’s good? As they held the fluid for a bit .
Ron Give your cylinders at least 3 or four good squirts of marvel mystery oil or ATF or kroil so they can soak. Soak all of your valve guides too,several times !! It's not hard to kill a good engine with sticky valve guides. You can then carefully try your valves to see if they will move,be careful on the intakes they can hit the pistons . Sticky valves can also fly closed and break your rocker arms,bend your pushrods once the engine is turned some. Good Luck !!
Ron Give your cylinders at least 3 or four good squirts of marvel mystery oil or ATF or kroil so they can soak. Soak all of your valve guides too,several times !! It's not hard to kill a good engine with sticky valve guides. You can then carefully try your valves to see if they will move,be careful on the intakes they can hit the pistons . Sticky valves can also fly closed and break your rocker arms,bend your pushrods once the engine is turned some. Good Luck !!
Excellent! On to the 3rd soaking tomorrow The first 3 cylinders will drain down the 1/2 cup ATF over night ᠁ took a couple days ᠁. But they started seeping past rings , I hope, last 3 are still holding atf Or were yesterday. I’ll check fluid , with my trusty white zip tie gauge and add as necessary. Thought about dropping the oil pad to have a look as well ! Thanks everyone for your responses
If you have a battery in it, you might also just bump the starter every couple days. Don't hold it in, but just hit it once or twice. That little extra jolt might just help it to break loose. But as mentioned, make sure all the valves and push rods are free also.
No battery However I’ve been gently moving or trying to move flywheel back and forth with pry bar Not forcing it just applying some pressure. Not 100% sure how to check the valves ? I have tapped top of valve with wood mallet before on other engines but I’ve also seen a valve keeper come loose doing that ! What’s the best way to check if valves and push rods are free ?
I can spin push rod if I apply hand pressure on top of rocker on all pushrods except for the 2nd cylinder from the fire wall . I sprayed some PB blaster on it and on pushrod lot actually and have been letting it sit ᠁. Hoping PB will run down pushrods and valves and free em up Still have ATF in two cylinders closest to the firewall (sorry don’t know firing order) Rest of the cylinders will hold ATF overnight But will drain down past rings (I think) by morning ? Not sure if that’s good or bad ᠁ I have yet to ad ATF to last two cylinders. Any input on in seizing the last 2 pistons and one valve or lifter would be greatly appreciated Thanks
I have used a few different types of space heaters. Cycled on and off for a week or so. Let’s the metal expand/contract so oil, Kroil, ATF or other seeps in.
I have a piece of 1" angle iron about a foot long with a J hook bolted to one end. I hook it under the rocker arm on the pushrod side and use it as a lever to cycle the valves up and down with some KROIL on the stems. It beats prying on the rocker arms with a big screwdriver and possibly breaking one. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thanks 216wny and Harold Both good ideas I havnt tried ᠁ I did tap the number 5 cyl vAlve with wood mallet it moved valve down but spring acts like it won’t bring it up Doesn’t look like spring is broke , it acts like valve is hung up in guide . I removed oil drain plug just to see if any water was in pan dark oil came out No signs of metal or water in oil . I’ve never used this kroll is it something I get at parts store ? I’ll try the pulling the rocker from pushrod side tomorrow See if I can get little more downward movement but I would prefer pulling valve up some way. I appreciate everyone’s input Thank you
Ron Burgundy Time-out now... Putting that muck fluid in your cylinders could bend a rod if you hit the starter and it has a cylinder come up on a commpression stroke. So be careful on that front. The fact your oil is leaking thru is a good sign,if ATF is able to seep thru the ring gaps may be in OK shape in there. Keep pitching that smell of MMO when she fires is like tyre smoke to a nascar fan !!!
Ron That Kroil is a pretty expensive penetrant oil that big companies mostly use,like power plants and refineries. Marvel Mystery Oil from Walmart is a century old oilfield treatment for engines running on dry field natural gas. I first saw it in the oilfield over 70 years ago,my grandpa used it in the thirties on a Bessemer 15 horse 1-lunger. All pumpers had it.
Another penetrant you can make at home is a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. Some people claim it's better than any of the commercial penetrants. I've seen both components of that mix on the shelf at Walmart, but I've never gotten around to mixing any up and trying it. The only 100% effective way to deal with sticky valve guides is to pull the cylinder head and do a valve job- - - -which the engine probably needs anyway. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Great info guys In regards to the one stuck valve ᠁ I took a pair of (cringe) vice grips and lightly grabbed top of valve gave it a gentle twist and POP valve came rite up . I don’t attempt to twist valve or anything after that I just barely gave any pressure and it came in stuck . I have not checked to see if ATF is still sitting on top of rear cylinder been busy but will try and check this afternoon. Thank you guys Oh and I don’t have 6 volt battery so probably won’t be trying to bump starter anytime soon ᠁. Unless I could hook up my battery charger on 6 volt ???? Either way plugs are out so not to worried about trying to turn engine with the starter if I had battery or knew how to do so with 6volt battery charger Thanks again for your responses
HRL, I've use the 50/50 acetone and ATF for many years. It does work extremely well and better than PB Blaster. The only drawback is that it isn't in an aerosol container so spraying it into small , hidden crevices doesn't work as well. For soaking or applying to easily accessed areas, it's great. I have put it in old Windex style bottles but you can't get that tight little spray like you get with one of the red straws on a can.
Be sure and use Dexron on GM parts and Type F on Ford parts.
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy) 1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1956 Cadillac Sixty Special Fleetwood (The Godfather) | 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado (The Purple Knif) | 1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe | 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
A series of short starter bumps with a 12 volt battery won't hurt it, but I'd recommend disconnecting the wire that runs from the big terminal on the starter to the ammeter to protect lights and other 6V components. The starter is rugged enough to handle short bursts of running on 12V as long as you don't run it for more than about 5 seconds at a time, or do it repeatedly. You can even do a compression test that way if you use a little common sense. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
ATF still sitting on back 2 pistons᠁.. Havnt tried to work engine back a forth to see if she will move a little yet today᠁. Supposed to rain tomorrow maybe I can get a day and remove pan get a look At bottom end .
ATF still sitting atop back 2 pistons. I realize patience is probably essential in allowing said fluids to break down and free up rust in 70 yr old cylinder᠁.. Uhg ᠁. Was considering removing oil pan to maybe get a look At bottom end ???? Might see something obvious with pan removed? Or I could just be patient???? Uhg Suggestions? Opinions? Ideas? Meaning of life ? Lol
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy) 1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1956 Cadillac Sixty Special Fleetwood (The Godfather) | 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado (The Purple Knif) | 1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe | 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
If you choose to pull the oil pan, be aware that it has an oil manifold and spray nozzles attached to the pan that lubricate the connecting rods with streams of oil that spray into dippers on the rods. Be extremely careful not to bend or damage the nozzles, as they require a factory fixture to aim them properly, and the fixture is scarce and expensive to rent or buy. An out of alignment nozzle will result in a rod bearing failure due to lack of lubrication at highway speeds. I've got one of the fixtures that was given to me by another bolter, but it's not something the average auto shop, or even most machine shops will have, since the last time that system was used on new vehicles was in 1953. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thank you for that info Jerry ! I have not removed the pan . And probably won’t now that you provided this information. I’m trying to be patient on the freeing up of engine !! Thanks again Ron
Update Ended up pouring white vinegar down cylinder 5 & 6 in hopes op it freeing up rings . White vinegar is nasty stuff !!! I also purchased a bore scope to look in cylinder thru plug hole but my old eyes can’t see anyway so that wasn’t much help . I hate to keep pouring stuff down cylinders if there’s a broken rod or something! But of course I can’t see down in there. There “appears” to be an inspection plate or something similar on passenger side of engine? Maybe not? Anything else I can do other than patiently wait , to see if there is something broke in #5 or #6 cylinders? I was advised not to remove pan so I havnt removed it . I don’t wanna get too aggressive trying to free it up but jeeeeeeez !!!! Opinions Options Advice ???
Before turning engine over, oil the valve guides, make sure no valves are stuck by tapping valves with rubber hammer or 2 x 4, otherwise bent pushrods may occur!
Ed
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires. '47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle. '54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed. '55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
I have no idea what the addition of vinegar is going to do with what you said was already put into cylinders 5 and 6. That being said, you have less than a months time in this process of getting the engine unstuck. Patience and time is your friend if you really what to salvage this engine. AM sure others can vouch for sometimes taking much longer than this to try and win the battle.
That being said I would hazard a guess that if things haven't become "unstuck" by now, at least allowing even minute movement of the crankshaft, your about to the point of having to remove the head for further investigation and more drastic action if you are intent on saving the engine.
On your
Originally Posted by RonBurgandy
Update...
There “appears” to be an inspection plate or something similar on passenger side of engine? Maybe not? ...
That is the push rod and lifter access cover. You can see your push rods, access lifters and such, but it does not give you access deeper into the cylinders themselves.
As with anything, your choice on how long you are willing to wait for positive results is your call.
IMO, I would opt for giving this more time. But I would also do what I could to clear out (suction) the fluid mix you know have and go back to adding a fresh acetone/ATF mix (my opinion).
If you not sure how to get the stuff in there now out, see about getting one of those big plastic kitchen turkey basters and a length of plastic hose. Use it like a bulb syringe to suck up whats in there. Will take multiple rounds to try and clear as much as you can. Don't forget to have a sturdy collection can to empty the baster into.
Good luck.
Dan
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
