The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 52 3100 not getting fuel

I just picked up a 52 chevy truck. It will run for a couple seconds with starter fluid.

Unless these trucks came with 2 gas tanks, it looks like there's a new one just behind the cab as well as the in cab one. The fuel line was connected to the outside tank, but it doesn't seem to have a sending unit. I was thinking I should just set it back up to run off the in cab tank, but there's no electricity going to its sending unit.

So my question is how should I run power to the inside the cab fuel sending unit? Also do I have all of these parts identified right going in order? (gas tank, sending unit, fuel line, fuel filter, fuel pump in the engine bay, carb, return line, and pressure regulator)

First, I would make sure that the fuel line isn't clogged with rust from one or both of the tanks. I'd disconnect the line at the various places and blow air through them(take the gas cap off first to avoid blowing up the tank). I'd drain them and peek in there with a flashlight to gauge the condition of the inside. The extra tank doesn't need a sending unit. It will just drain via gravity the way the one in the cab does. I've never seen a vent like that on an AD fuel sender. I think I would remove it. Why would you want gasoline fumes venting into the cab?

Second, Check your fuel pump. Disconnect the fuel line at the carburetor and see if fuel actually pumps out of the line at the carb. Is there a fuel filter anywhere in the system? remove it and replace it.

Third, if you are getting fuel delivered to the carb, you may have problems inside the carb - sunken float, stuck float, bad accelerator pump, stuck needle and seat, etc. What do you know about this truck's history? Did it sit for a long time? If so, drain all the fuel and use it for your lawn mower. Ethanol may have gummed the works.

Fourth, what carburetor do you have? I'm assuming you have the original 216 engine.

Fifth, I know it starts on ether but check your plugs, cap, rotor and points anyway. It's a lot easier to ignite ether with a weak spark than it is gasoline.

Welcome to Stovebolt.

It looks to me like the in-cab tank is a later (54?) one that uses a top outlet in the sending unit. A '52 would have had a bottom outlet. That's not to say that you couldn't use that in-cab tank, but you'll need to run a line from that connection on top.

You have it right as far as the carburetor, but there's no return line or pressure regulator, unless you have a non-stock engine that needs one.

There was no frame mounted tank in '52 models, so that was either added or it's on an earlier frame.

I thought that thing on top was a vent. If it isn't, where do the fuel lines attach to your tank?

I think it's the correct tank with the wrong sending unit attached. It looks like its plugged rather than vented.

If you are getting fuel to the carburetor, press the starter without turning the ignition key to get fuel into the carburetor. Once you've done this for 10 seconds or so (enough to fill the fuel bowl), look down inside the carburetor throat with the engine off and work the throttle manually. You should see fuel squirting into the carburetor. If you don't, the accelerator pump is bad and the carburetor should be rebuilt.

That elbow line coming out of the sending unit is the fuel line to the fuel pump. Goes through the floor and joins a short flex line right under the floor. Then a hard line connects to the flex and goes to the fuel pump. Needs the flex connection to absorb the shakes, bumps and rattles from cab to frame. As had been said... it's a 54 tank but will work just fine in your 52.

The wire from your fuel gauge goes through the firewall, runs down by the master cylinder and up through the hole in the floor behind the seat and connects to the sending unit. Don't forget to ground the sending unit from one of the attaching screws to a good ground nearby.

Cardriver333,

First off, since this is your 1st post here in the Stovebolt, WELCOME!

You have a fair bit of info to begin figuring out your apparent fuel related non-start problem. I would suggest before going too much farther that you take and post more detailed pictures of both tanks, the fuel lines that are already present (or maybe absent as the case may be), your fuel pump and a general picture of the existing carburetor. Pics of the fuel tanks and the lines connected to them will be greatly helpful in this instance.

Once we can better see what you are working with, better answers or more questions can be provided to try and help out. It will also help if you can answer any questions posed back to you in the earlier replies so we can better understand what has and has not been considered or looked at.

While all this is going on, we always encourage new folks to go and introduce themselves and their trucks in the Welcome Centre .

If you read a couple of the latest new posts in there, you can get a flavor for what you may want to tell us. What ever you do, please post some pics of your truck - lol! If you don't, be prepared to be pestered until you do - haha.

Once again, Welcome!

Dan

The OP didn't say it was a '54 tank. That was Kevin's guess.

If it is a '54 tank, how is the engine getting fuel?

I think it's a '52 tank with a '54 sender stuck in it and the fuel line from that sender is capped off.

But, I think we need a lot more information.

1. How are the two tanks connected?
2. Does the in-cab tank have an outlet below the cab floor?
3. If so, is that where the two tanks are connected?
4. Sending unit doesn't need electricity for the engine to get fuel. That's for the fuel gauge.
5. Are you using the stock mechanical pump?
6. Was this truck running before you bought it? Aside from the ether, did you ever see it run on gasoline?
7. Pictures of the engine bay, carburetor, fuel pump, fuel line connections at the tank(s), etc. will help a lot.

Wow thanks for the warm welcome and quick replies. I'm working through some of them at the moment, but I do have a question what this circle is that I thought was a pressure regulator. The part that the smaller line is going to

Here are some more photos

The circle thing is the top of the road draft tube. The draft tube allows crankcase gases to be drawn out of the engine and vented to the atmosphere. It's the forrunner of the PCV system.

The petcock under the cab is the original style outlet for your original tank. It's not a '54 tank.

The canister on the frame rail is a fuel filter and/or fuel pump of some kind. Don't hook it back up because its prolly filled up with dead spiders and mud dauber larvae. Switch is prolly for an auxilliary fuel pump. Who knows?

Thanks I was wondering about that part too, but what is this thing

That's the distributor timing advance - vacuum cannister.

That thing is a "vacuum advance" cannister/mechanism on your distributor.

If you don't have one, a "Shop Manual" is a fantastic resource to have to learn about your truck.

Do a web search. They are readily available as new reprints.

Here is inside the tank. The vent is capped off and you can see i think there's a vent where the gas goes in.

So how does the fuel get to the carb? Gravity? Do I just need to run a fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump in the engine bay?

It looks like the cab tank is connected to the rear tank ,does the hose go from the petcock to the rear tank.if so then I see the rear tank has wires for a gauge so it appears the gauge runs off the rear tank .It looks like it was originally set up to have the tanks separate with the switch to the solenoid that looks disconnected .It maybe a safety concern the way it is now as if both tanks were filled the cab tank is gravity fed to the rear and if you parked on a hill there could be leakage.You could start by taking the cab tank out and clean anD put it back in ,then make up a line like the original one that goes from the top of the tank that is closed off to the original hole in the bottom of the floor to the line going to the fuel pump.The 54 tanks also have the same petcock at the bottom and the gauge looks like my 54 .The wire for the cab tank comes from under the tank and a ground wire from one of the top screws on the sender to the brace at the back of the cab.

I ran out to the garage and took a few pics .the line from under the truck show is replacement but a short piece of fuel line can be used with some threaded nipples until you get one .the sender wire comes up from the grommet , the big hole in the floor has a sponge ring around it were the tank sits and the petcock is the other hole is we’re the line from the top of the tank goes under to the flexible fuel hose then to the front .Your gas gauge looks in good shape you may want to see if a new filter sock will fit on .Some put a filter under the cab but looks like you have one before your pump.

One of your own pics may provide some answers (attached below).

The in cab tank has a fitting and shut off valve threaded into the bottom of the tank upwards through the cab floor on passenger side.

The rubber hose attached to that brass shutoff valve should lead forward towards the engine and fuel pump. One of your other pictures showed that rubber line disconnected from the in line fuel filter before it gets to the fuel pump.

The fuel sending unit as others have noted is a later than '52 unit which changed where the fuel was drawn from the tank. Apparently a PO (Previous Owner) used what they had or what was available as a sending unit and just capped of the unused fuel line coming out the unit top. As long as it's sealed up and leak free, nothing wrong with leaving it alone for the time being.

The upper fuel inlet and vent set up connected to the top of your in-cab tank is correct for the '52. Best to check the condition of the rubber and make sure clamps are tight as problems here lead to gas fumes and vapors in the cab - a bad situation all around.

At this point, the behind the cab tank and what looks like an adaption of an electric fuel transfer pump doesn't play well with the in-cab tank and unless you wish to relocate the tank to outside of the cab, could/should be removed. More info on what to do with that equipment can be discussed later. Suggest you hang onto everything for now until you figure out what your plan is.

Last comment before I let others chime in here. The inside of your tank doesn't look that bad, but doesn't look great either. New reproduction tanks that are rust free are considered the best starting point to bring your fuel system up to par and keep your engine from suffering problems from old fuel residue and rust.

Your fuel pump is the original style. If it isn't working, rebuild it or send it off and have it done. It is far superior to any new fuel pump you can purchase.

Your fuel line isn't hooked up. There's an aftermarket fuel filter just before the pump. Maybe you disconnected it to clean out the lines?

Are you talking about the ignition vacuum advance system hooked to the distributor?

Ed

Exactly. That "vent tube" that's capped is the fuel supply on the '54 sender. Not being used here, since the tank does have the bottom outlet (indicating it's an earlier tank). No need to connect a fuel line to the sender on top.

That thing on the frame rail (pic below) is a solenoid operated selector valve for a two tank setup. It looks like it's been abandoned. It would have a line from each tank and one out to the fuel pump. And some wires to a switch on the dash to change tanks. If the switch is a double pole double throw switch, you could run your sending unit wires thru it so each sending unit would be active when that tank is selected.
Fuel line from tank 1 to one inlet port on the valve, fuel line from tank 2 to the other inlet port, and the outlet port to the fuel pump.

Unless you want to reactivate the two-tank setup (you'd need to clean the switchover valve out and make sure it works on the bench), just pick the tank you want to use and run fuel line from there to the fuel pump inlet.

Yep, that would make it hard for fuel to get to the carb.

I tried starting it with the fuel line connected and no fuel was flowing so i disconnected it then took the pictures. So I had a feeling the fuel pump was bad and just took the fuel pump off.

What is the procedure for testing them? And is there any info on rebuilding? I think I'm gonna clean the tank, replace the fuel lines, and filter.

You can test your fuel pump on the engine. Disconnect both lines, attach a hose to inlet and outlet and stick the inlet hose in a jug of fuel, and the outlet back into the same jug where you can see the end of it, then crank the engine. You should see a stream of fuel pulsing out of the outlet hose after a few moments (it'll take some time for the fuel to get to the pump inlet).

You can get a rebuild kit for the pump from Then and Now Auto, You may need the number stamped on the pump to get the right kit. See pic.

Cardriver If your sure your valves are free to go,you could fill your float bowl thru the vent watch down it's throat for gasoline to come out of the venturi. That will let it run for a minute or two, see if you have oil pressure and look for other trouble. I use 2-cycle mix for some added lubrication.

I tested the fuel pump by cranking the engine with a tube in a cup of gas going to the fuel pump and got nothing coming out the other end. I'm gonna replace it, clean out the gas tank, and replace the fuel line and filter.

I would get a rebuild kit for the fuel pump instead of replacing it with a new one. You'll get a much better product when you rebuild it.

DO NOT REPLACE the FUEL PUMP.

The new ones are absolute junk straight out of the box. I've already been down that road with two of them and ended up having the original one -same pump as yours- rebuilt.

Send it to Then and Now Automotive. You won't regret it

I'm just waiting on the rebuild kit for the fuel pump. I cleaned some rust out of the tank in the meantime and bought new fuel lines and filter.

If you're cleaning rust out of the tank, you'll most likely have to replace it or put one of those sloshing compounds in it or it's going to keep clogging the fuel lines with rust particles. New Canadian made tanks are available for under $200.

That's not a fuel pump test. I've wasted billions of electrons over the past 20-something years describing how to test a fuel pump, and it's probably saved somewhere in the archives. Nobody ever does it right, anyway!
Jerry